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Spacewar where to start


timothy2222

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http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=013&item=230036555485&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

 

Bought this the other day. Would like to get it working.

Anyone know who I could see. My plan is to run a cap kit in the monitor chassis and a new tube. I have not got it yet it is on transport. So I dont know what monitor it runs. Does anyone know from the pictures?

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read up on VECTOR monitors, good luck on a new tube, 100' B/W vector tube :(. Hope the yoke and tube are good. If the montors not working, suspect the defelction x-sitors and the psu x-sistors. If the monitors no good, you will need a dual trace scope to check the pcb.

 

You got yourself a handfull there. Good Luck

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I like the look of the cabinet and it does have a bit of history. http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=13027

 

My options are

1- Leave it in the corner of my garage to look at.

2- Get it professionally reparied. New vector monitor etc etc

3- Put a pc into it with a ipac and hook up the buttons etc and run a emulator.

4- Put a old black and white TV into it a run a Atari 2600 with http://www.mobygames.com/game/atari-2600/space-war/trivia Do a few hacks with the Atari controller to run the buttons.

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I talked to a guy from gamedudes today on the phone. He seemed to know what he was talking about and said you dont always have to use a vector monitor. I will take it up to him see what he thinks if it is all to hard I am going to pull the old monitor and chassis out and put in a cheap pc monitor with a $100 pc and keyboard encoder and run this emulator http://www.computerspacefan.com/NewCompSpaceSim.htm

I will make sure that everything I do will be reversable and not cut or drill anything.

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christs sakes, DON"T put a pc monitor in there. Do not let anyone take you for a ride. It could be an easy fix. If you are going to mame a cab, don't do it to this one :(

 

If you are going to gut and mame it, I'll give you 500 for the entire guts

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Have to agree with Geoff on this one. Don't be conned into giving up the guts for a trade on some cheap mame crap, its worth good money.

The cab is worth far more in original condition. if you really want to mame something buy a cheap shit 20" lowboy.

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I talked to a guy from gamedudes today on the phone. He seemed to know what he was talking about and said you dont always have to use a vector monitor. I will take it up to him see what he thinks if it is all to hard I am going to pull the old monitor and chassis out and put in a cheap pc monitor with a $100 pc and keyboard encoder and run this emulator http://www.computerspacefan.com/NewCompSpaceSim.htm

I will make sure that everything I do will be reversable and not cut or drill anything.

 

I'd happily help you out getting it going if you were local, but I'm not sure why gamedude told you that you don't always need to use a vector monitor. If you want to restore this game using the original hardware you are going to have to use a vector monitor, and if it's the Cinematronics monitor, you are going to have to use the same monitor as all the digital to analogue conversion is done on the monitor, not the pcb.

 

I think the best option for you would be to replace the game with an emulator, but enable a reverse conversion down the track.

 

Good luck, I hope it works out :)

 

Regards,

 

JWG.

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Seems the monitor problem is common with vector games found this quote on the web

"A final note on X-Y monitors; the main manufacturers of the monitors used in these games were Electrohome and Wells-Gardner. Due to the high, fluctuating voltages required to make the electron beams in these monitors perform their required gyrations, the monitors have a tendency to blow out flyback transformers and the large capacitors used in the vector unit. Happily for all of us who own them, a gent named Anthony Zanen, of Zanen Electronics, makes a series of get-well kits for these monitors (customized to each monitor model) which contain modern, higher-rated parts to replace the 'problem' parts used originally to save money or that were lower-tech. Reports indicate that monitors so upgraded become nearly problem-free."

 

Found this link to so called get well kits I wonder what monitor mine is. http://randyfromm.com/amusements/yellowpages/zanen/

http://www.gamearchive.com/Video_Games/Manufacturers/Atari/monitor.html

 

I think I might put in a new tube non vector. I have been told it will work and a cheap recap kit from Zanon for $10.00. If it takes anymore than this it might have to go back on Ebay.

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not sure if what your saying is meant to mean all vector games or just ATARI john, but i have an original USA early cab upright ASTEROIDS that is fully working

unusual thing is it has the original xy chassis, but has been fitted with a tube out of a non vector game, you wouldnt know the difference if it wasnt for screen burn from sides of tracks (i think tube was out of a SPEED RACE)

have also been told that colour vectors can definetely be fitted with non vector tubes to the original chassis as well :cool:

i can take some pics of the guts of my chassis and tube if anyones interested.

i didnt convert it (im not that smart :cry ), an interstate long time operator came up with the modification idea years ago:o

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Only one way to find out and that is to try it.

I am going to try is to put a newtube in it. Non Vector cause vector are two hard to get. If that works and I get a poor picture or some sort of life I will then try to get a cap kit for the chassis. I will defiantly never butcher this game. If a PC and emulator go in it. I will keep all the parts and make sure it is reversible.

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not sure if what your saying is meant to mean all vector games or just ATARI john, but i have an original USA early cab upright ASTEROIDS that is fully working

unusual thing is it has the original xy chassis, but has been fitted with a tube out of a non vector game, you wouldnt know the difference if it wasnt for screen burn from sides of tracks (i think tube was out of a SPEED RACE)

have also been told that colour vectors can definetely be fitted with non vector tubes to the original chassis as well :cool:

i can take some pics of the guts of my chassis and tube if anyones interested.

i didnt convert it (im not that smart :cry ), an interstate long time operator came up with the modification idea years ago:o

 

No Jeff I'm only referring to the monitor as a whole, not the tube. There are no specific arcade vector tubes, the only difference is how the tube is driven. This also applies to colour vector monitors as well.

 

Regards,

 

John.

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Ok that clears things up. So it is only the chassis that is different and not the tube between a Vector and non vector monitor. So any 19 inch tube should work.

 

To an extent. The tube still needs to be compatible and you will need to use the original yoke from the faulty tube.

 

Regards,

 

JWG.

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Hi tim

from what i have read you could offer to swap the cab for a generic cab with someone on this forum i think someone would bite then you could hack and add joysticks mame it and no harm done to a piece of arcade history and the machine could be restored to origional by a colector

just my 2 bobs worth

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I have already learned heaps and I have not even got the thing yet.

What i know so far from web research is.

1 The monitor is a vectorbeam monitor. No other chassis will work.

2 This game is prone to power supply problems. Often the power supply will power up the board but not the monitor and audio. The power supply can be changed easily.

3 There are several fuses and trigger switches on the board that could be blown or set off.

4 The electronics of this game are fairly simple and I am sure there would be people out there that would know how to fix this game. It is just a matter of finding them.

5 This game is apparently the very first VECTOR coin operated video game and they are very rare. KLOV rates it a 1 out of 100 for rarity. So I think in a few years when Arcade games become more collectible this could be worth more than what i paid for it.

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there is a real good chance the game boards are still ok tim or just have minor problems like chips need reseating etc

it wouldve been better purely from a selling perspective (had you not bought it so quickly) if i could have tested the boards in my other machine but there is no way i can get to it at the moment to do that :cry

i definetly had this machine working about 1 year ago (not with this monitor fitted), and played a game on it :D

from memory my other one had intermittent sound problem as well though, so this may have went that way too

game boards are super clean, heres a pic i took but forgot to post on auction page :o

 

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~jeffiseverywhere/spacewar11.JPG

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ok i took some more detailed pics of monitor chassis at request of JWG, so thought i might as well post them on here in case anyone else can help identify why chassis is faulty, thanks :o

 

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~jeffiseverywhere/spacewar14.JPG

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~jeffiseverywhere/spacewar12.JPG

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~jeffiseverywhere/spacewar13.JPG

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I found this on the web.

Hi Folks,

 

This should be of interest to anyone who has a Cinematronics B/W X-Y monitor

(Vectorbeam) that has either died or is dying due to it's Hi-Voltage supply.

The supply MUST be the 'off-board' type such as the Keltron HP160124A, this

can't be done (at least not easily) with the Hi-V supply that is part of the

big monitor pc board. I've also seen another supply used that does not look

like the Keltron, but it's hook-ups were the same, so all this applies to

it also.

The supply has three outputs: 16kV, 400VDC (FOCUS) and 90VDC (CATHODE).

On several supplies that I have the 90V output will fail and drop down to

about 45V. If all the normal intensity lines on your screen dissappear leaving

only the high intensity lines, there's a good chance your 90V output is dying.

The 90V is used in the brightness circuit which drives the Pix tube's cathode,

controlling the amount of beam current, hence, picture intensity.

The failure, at least in my supplies, is due to a component within the

voltage quadrupler circuit; the potted and plastic encased section of the

Keltron. I haven't tried to repair one yet, it may not be possible. For now,

assume it's not.

The manufacturer of these supplies, Keltron Corp. of Waltham MA, wants nothing

to do with them anymore, can't blame them. The only option is to replace it.

That is, if you can find one.

Another option is to replace it with a similar power supply. Not that many to

choose from. What I've found is that the Electrohome G05's Hi-Voltage supply

can be used as a replacement. This MUST be the older version Assy #02-160007-01

with the PC Assy #02-160008-01 Issue 5. The newer version, Assy #05-160006-01,

with the PC Assy #02-160016-01 (02-160027-01 ?) will not work. The former is

rated for up to 16KV where the latter is rated for 12kV (different design).

The Wells-Gardner version of this supply [38A5583-000 using PCB300] is rated

for 14.5KV. I've got one ready to go but I haven't tried it yet.

Connecting the Electrohome supply to the Vectorbeam it trivial. The drawback

is that new mounting holes will need to be drilled in the monitor's metal side

panel. The new cable needed is simple enough to show below. The only caution

here is that the wire for the 400V connection MUST have an insulation rated for

600 Volts or greater.

 

Cinematronics Electrohome

deflection bd Power Supply

PCB connector Connector P900

 

+90V 1

2 >

+400V 3 >-------------------------

+25V 4 >-------------------------

GND 5 >-------------------------

6 >

 

Chassis --------------------

 

Before connecting the new supply, check the voltage level of the +25V supply.

The Electrohome EHT supply was designed to operate over an input voltage

range of +23VDC to +38VDC but it's better to be sure. When you do power up

the Hi-V supply you will probably need to adjust the anode voltage. The FOCUS

voltage will also need to be adjusted to +400VDC. It's adjustable limits are

-140V to +400V so definitely check it.

 

RESULTS:

The CATHODE output voltage (and the FIXED 400V, P900-3) track the adjustment

potentiometer so when you adjust the anode voltage the 90V & 400V also change.

This is why I chose to use the variable FOCUS output. I have my supply set so

that I get 116V, 400V and 15.4kV. If the anode voltage is set lower than 15kV

the picture expands past the edges of the tube due to the slower electrons

being deflected for a longer time than they should. The 116V is almost 30%

higher than what the intensity circuit normally expects but the 2N5550 XSTRs

which do the level switching can handle this without any problems.

I have my supply running at it's maximum output but according to it's specs

it should be able to handle it. So far, I've only had the machine running for

a few hours and it seems fine. Only time will tell whether this replacement

will hold up.

 

AND THIS

 

So your Cinematronics/Vectorbeam vector game doesn't work, eh? Maybe I

can help.

 

Does your game have power; does it do anything at all (other than light

the attractor if it has one)? It is best to check with a meter if you

have +5VDC, +/-25VDC, and 6.3VAC but you can get a good idea if you are

getting +5VDC by watching the red LED on the CPU board which is the

largest of the game PCBs (some early versions of the CPU board don't

have this LED.). Even if your power supply is bad, you can easily bench

test this board by wiring up Ground and +5 volts to it from a modern day

power supply. This is enough to get the CPU board running (but not the

monitor or the audio board). When the power is turned on, the LED

should come on very brightly for about 1-2 seconds and then turn off.

Most games give some kind of sound burst for a second, too. If it never

lights you either have severe game board problems or, more likely, power

supply problems. If it stays lit then you almost definitely have game

board problems.

 

If you don't have power, you need to fix/replace your power supply or

wiring harness, obviously. Check to make sure your power cord is OK as

they often go bad (on any game) and be sure to replace the plug if some

idiot has broken off the earth ground pin. Also check to make sure the

safety interlock for the back door is functional (conducts when pushed

in and also when pulled out). I only have experience with the Condor

brand power supply (CP 573) but Cinematronics also used another vendor,

National Power Technology, who made a very different but pinout

compatible unit which I have never seen. Vectorbeam used yet another

power supply that was incompatible with the Cinematronics harnesses.

 

No matter what power supply you have, start out by checking the fuses

and resetting the circuit breakers. If you have a Condor supply and are

using USA power, make sure the switch in the upper left is in the 115

VAC (down) position and check fuse F1 and make sure it is good and is

rated 4 Amps at 250 Volts. If it is bad or a different rating, replace

it with the proper fuse. Other countries' power systems may require

different values of these 2 things but the PCB tells you what they

should be. Next check/reset the strange looking circuit breakers in the

middle left of the board. There are 2 right next to one another and

each has a thin red rod sticking out of it. There is no way to tell if

these have been tripped or not and they are old and unreliable so push

them down a few times to be sure they get reset. Lots of times this is

all that is wrong. I replace these with new breakers on all my power

supplies since the original ones are almost always flaky and rusted and

probably not breaking very well (and sometimes not conducting either :).

The original breakers are rated at 3.0A hold and 4.5A spike and are made

by Littlefuse Inc. but I have been unable to locate that company and

they probably aren't around any more (Condor has no information about

them or the power supply but Condor still exists and builds power

supplies to this day).

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