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Middle Earth restoration! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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Question

HI All,

New to the pinball game, I thought I'd start with something easy, Atari Middle Earth :lol

Yeah OK I didn't do my research.

The Cab is in good condition, paint a bit faded, chrome a bit tarnished with surface rust.

Backlight art is pretty good.

Playfield is very good with all the plastics there and none cracked.

No glass.

 

So I got the idea from PO there was something wrong with the transformer. I checked as best I could all the outgoing voltages and found either correct values or nothing. I am not totally sure I stuck the multimeter in the right places though.

Having seen no radically high voltages I thought let's give it a spin...

PO also indicated the main board had been tested and seemed ok.

 

Results

1. Lights on, and seemed to go into attract mode, but so real sound just a loud HUMMMM!

2. Test switch seemed to go through 4 different modes before back to attract mode. Some of the score display worked.

3. Triggered the coin microswitch credits came up.

4. Pressed start button, drop targets reset, right flippers worked but a bit sticky. Hitting targets seemed to light things up and add to P1 score. then the score just kept going up by about 100 per second with no more input. left flipper blew the solenoid fuse!

5. So I went searching for the short / problem that blew a fuse. Found a few terminals unplugged, broken microswitches, checked every microswitch for action and continuity, found a couple of duds.

6. Turned it back on, then all hell broke loose!:o Every solenoid triggered over and over and over again, all the lights flashed on and off at the same rate of about 3 times a second!:o

At least I know which solenoids work now!

7. Shut it down quickly!

 

So... Anyone had a similar experience?

Where to go from here?

 

And yes I now know Atari .....

I'm leaning FAST!

 

Cheers,

Graham

 

 

 

I have a big garage Bro!

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Ha! I have already tracked down @raysco looking at his old posts this machine looks scarily familiar!

 

So I went to the shed this are to have another fiddle.

I replaced a couple of suspect microswitches, found a couple more blown fuses and had a good look at the main board.

 

OOOOPs, I found a random blob of solder splatter lodged across a couple of terminals of a many legged electronic thingy :o .

My bad! Yesterday just prior to the solenoid spasm, I was desoldering some dodgy cabling on one of the solenoids. The errant blob was DIRECTLY below where I was working:022:

So I cleaned that off and fired it up again. less spasm but still a little.

Pressed the reset button changed all the blown fuses and hey presto back to attract mode, no spasm!

Unfortunately one of the fuses for the solenoids I replaced was much higher value than I thought.... and I let a little smoke out! If there is one thing I know about electronics is that it runs on smoke!

When you let the smoke out you can't put it back in, and the electronics stop working!:rolleyes

Fortunately it looked like it came from either a small diode, capacitor or resistor all mounted near each other and look to be easily tested and replaced.

With the correct value fuse back in I found and isolated the offending solenoid (kicker)

I ran some more tests. It seems to run through the three test modes ok.

Using a process of elimination I found the problem with the left flipper was one of the solenoids, isolated that and no more blown fuses. One of the left flippers now works, but goes on and off very rapidly when the button is held down.

But one of the previously "good" kicker solenoids stayed on and got quite hot, so I had to isolate that as well! I think that may have something to do with the escaping smoke, as it worked fine earlier. (before the solder blob and smoke escape.) And that solenoid is triggered by the wire which I overloaded!

I am also not confident that the score board works completely as in test mode it is supposed to read all 8s, but it was all mixed up. Possibly bad contacts at the score board connection tangs.

Still no sound, just a loud HUMMMM!

 

Next test I put up a few credits, (only one of the coin slots seems to work.) and pressed start!

WOW! It ran through a reset and even ejected a ball! I hit a few targets and microswitches all of which added the correct points, drop targets went down and then reset. (The initial problem of the score continuing to rise seems to have come from the drop targets not resetting due to blown main solenoid fuse on the P/S.)

Ball count works!

 

Looks like I might be getting some traction.

 

My next day off I will look at finding some solenoids.( Read somewhere that Atari put the diodes the opposite way round to everyone else, so I'll need to re-read the fix for that)

Also will look into the scoreboard connection. (Danger high voltage! 180V)

The difficult job will be to locate a can of electronics smoke and the right place to pump it back in!

 

Questions:

What resistance value should I get for a good kicker solenoid?

I assume there is two windings in a flipper solenoid, one to operate and one to hold? Two different resistance values?

What are the chances I've fried something expensive on the main board? (Who would know?)

What creates the sound? And what is it supposed to sound like?

 

Cheers,

Graham.

 

 

 

 

 

I have a big garage Bro!:laugh:

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Holy crap bro. You’re learning curve is a vertical line. Amazing progress given you’ve never had a Pinnie before. I cant help you with your questions but hopefully some smart dudes here can help you out. Keep going. ��
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Damn! I got it running and 5 minutes(if that) later it went back into solenoid overdrive again. It seems I will have to get the main board and auxiliary board tested properly instead my plug it in and fiddle method.

The only Atari repairer I can find on the net is in Houston USA! Postage is almost as expensive as his test and repair (if possible) price. And he can’t guarantee the work as it is such an unstable 40+ year old board.

 

Anyone in Aus that can sort these things.

 

I have seen on other websites people redesigning old pinballs, with new themes etc.

As the main issue with Atari machines seems to be electronic, is there any way to Frankenstein this pinball machine with a different motherboard?

Perhaps raspberry Pi or arduino based?

It is after all only switches and reactions.

Has anyone gone down that route?

Surely some 12year old kid can program something 😂

 

Seems a shame that it is all repairable except the electronics.

I don’t care much for “originality� if I can make it work better than original!

 

cheers,

Graham

 

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Hey Graham,

I think you have jumped right in at the deep end. You were doing so well. Also you are trying to get it all running in one hit. Maybe you need to take the “divide and conquer� approach.

The machine will usually boot up with all solenoid power disconnected, switches and lamps disconnected allowing you to work on one section at a time.

Sometimes you may need to part install these circuits, ie if it needs to see a ball in the trough.

You probably need to look at getting the displays working first so you can see what’s happening in diagnostics.

 

Johns Jukes in Canada fixes these but won’t rush, I believe he sometimes will do a swop faulty for good.

 

There are other options re Rpi, Proc, Virtual Pin, but not sure about with Atari game roms.

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“Maybe you need to take the “divide and conquer� approach.�

 

I have kinda been doing this and narrowed things down. Just as I’m making headway, it all falls apart again!🙄

Display seems fine now that I straightened a couple of contacts and I even fired a couple of balls around (with two and a half flippers working). Points add on correctly

I know I have fried something to do with right slingshot, (it stays on) when I let the smoke out. I’m thinking Q15 by the details in pinwiki.

So that is disconnected along with one of the top flippers.

I have also found a great workshop here in Toowoomba who will test and if necessary rewire or remanufacture the transformer.

 

“Johns Jukes in Canada fixes these but won’t rush, I believe he sometimes will do a swop faulty for good.“

 

Thanks, another resource to check out.

 

I guess the really disappointing thing is, as I thought things were going well, I went and bought a heap of parts to fix up a number of dodgy things. Flippers, solenoids, pop bumper parts, etc stuff to make it work “mechanically “.

 

 

cheers,

Graham.

 

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Brilliant update today!

 

All of this info is as much for my memory as it is for anyone else. (Sorry if I am teaching anyone how to suck eggs!)

 

1. I got the sound to work. Simply by plugging the speaker cable into the right connector! D'Oh!

 

2. I replaced transistor #17 which had previously let its smoke out. trans #17 fires the left slingshot.

 

3. I found an "The Electronics Workshop" in Toowoomba, where I took the main board. I described the symptoms of seeming to work ok for less than five minutes then going into "solenoid and flashing light spasm". The tech the shop, one "Peter", said he thought that the "computer" was probably OK, as it worked for a while then got confused. He then asked about the power supply and was there a large capacitor associated?

I showed him pic1.

AHA!

Being 40+ years old the caps were probably no good.

He told me, the transformer provided the necessary AC voltage, the bridge rectifiers changed to DC, then the capacitors smoothed the DC to something the computer can work with. If the caps are bad then as they warm up they no longer smooth the DC and the computer sees "dirty" DC voltage and gets confused, then can't do as it is supposed to!

One cap is 21000uf 40VDC the other is 18000uf 25VDC. He said try with some smaller / cheaper caps in parallel and see if it improves the time the machine stays sane!

He had a couple on hand. 10000uf 25vDC which I put on the 18000 and 4700uf 63Vdc which I mounted on the 21000.

If there was a marked improvement, this was the main issue, so go ahead and buy some capacitors of the correct value.

Pic 2!

 

I plugged it in and turned it on......

Score board lit up, credits came up with a little tickle of the coin micro, one press of the start button and everything went kachunck as it reset ready for a game! Even had sound!

BUT no lights... (I'll need to trace that next.)

I shot the ball out and it played as it should. (kinda)

No slingshots. *

Only 3 flippers. *

No lights, (strange as they worked yesterday...)

The drop targets work but a bit stiff. *

Some of the bumpers with microswitches in them don't seem to do anything, some add 10 points to the score. ???

Bumpers don't react to a ball, but work when triggered by hand. *

Scoreboard works for player 1.

Spinners work and score.

All those marked with * I have parts coming for, and should be able to fix.

 

I'm not really sure if the scoreboard is working properly as I haven't been able to get more than one player up at a time. This might have something to do with the adjustment switch positions on the main board.

 

You may have noticed that all this would have taken some time. A long time! WAY longer than I had seen it running before! In fact about half an hour passed before I decided to shut down and be happy with todays improvements.

Thanks Peter!

 

Now I need to buy some big caps and install them permanently!

Problem #1 solved! now to move onto a few more...

 

Questions:

Why suddenly no lights?

What are the bumper micros for if they don't all add to score?

How to get more than 1 player up?

 

 

Cheers,

Graham.

 

 

 

 

 

I have a BIG garage Bro! :laugh:

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Well surprisingly I went to the shed to gloat in my victory, and it played up again.

However with the application of a BST (British Standard Thump) on the power supply chassis the machine went back to working with no lights. This to me sounds like a dry joint somewhere. I have spent some time checking and cleaning all the terminals associated with the power supply and still the same.

So I have bitten the bullet and handed the PS to the electronic workshop for a proper inspection and test. Once this has been proven to be working correctly I will move downstream to the next component. While it is away I plan to check all the fuse holders as they are old and may have some poor contact issues.

I also have a lot of physical work to do on the play field such as bumpers and flippers when the parts arrive.

 

Cheers,

Graham.

 

 

 

I have a BIG garage Bro :laugh:

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While I am waiting for the electronics whizz to do his thing,

I want to rebuild a few mechanical bits, like the pop bumpers, flipper mechs and drop targets.

And while these are apart I should clean the play field and plastics ready for reassembly.

 

A couple of questions about cleaning and lube.

 

Best cleaning products for:

1. Playfield?

2. Plastics?

3. Internals of the drop targets?

4. External of cabinet?

 

Best lube for moving parts of:

1. Solenoids? Spray silicone

2. Flipper bushes? Spray silicone?

3. Drop target metal parts? WD40? Light oil?

4. Drop target plastic parts? Spray silicone?

 

 

Cheers,

Graham.

 

 

 

 

 

I have a BIG garage Bro! :laugh:

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Don't lube! Pinball parts run dry, adding lube will just give all of that shitty black "pinfunk" somewhere to accumulate.

Certainly do not add WD40 to your game, it will all end in tears.

 

Clean the playfield with 100% Isopropyl Alcohol (Bunnings or Jaycar)

Playfield can be lightly polished with Novus 2 (from a pinball supplyer) as can plastics

Polish metal parts with metal polish in a tube (Bunnings) or just clean up with Isopropyl if you are not too anal retentive anout it.

 

Keep any spray lube or silicone out of the game. Replacing all of the nylon coil sleeves ($1 each or so) and cleaning all of the metal parts will mean they run nicely dry as they were designed.

 

Lots of videos on Youtube to show how to rebuild all the mechs (although they may not be Atari, all are similar)

 

Dave

 

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Captains log, 3rd February 2021 Shed space limited!

 

I got the power supply back from the Electronics tech with a clean bill of health. The only thing he did after testing it was to polish the contacts on a relay which has something to do with the flipper and solenoid power supply. He suggested there may have been some power loss there due to the dirty contacts.

While the power supply was away, I also thoroughly cleaned any switches or contacts associated with the power supply chain. Atari has put terminals on all the wires which makes for easy replacement of bits but terminals can have issues with dirty contacts and therefore bad conductivity. (Unlike solder)

 

I tracked down two faulty transistors Q15 and Q17. these controls the LHS and RHS slingshots respectively. The solenoid on the LHS was short circuited and let the smoke out of Q17, and the solenoid for the RHS slingshot was permanently on, making the solenoid also permanently on! I honed my soldering skills, replaced those two and the solenoid for the LHS slingshot and now they work!

 

Well after plugging it all back together, hey presto, most things worked, and continued to do so without going into "spasm mode".

Some parts had arrived so I rebuilt the pop bumpers which were in a very sad state. Pretty much replaced everything except the solenoids and mounts. LHS pop is a fair bit weaker than the other. They both read the same resistance, but the return spring is quite a bit stiffer on the LHS pop, so I will swap them over and see if there is any change. I may replace the solenoids if I don't get any joy.

 

I replaced a dodgy welded up flipper crank arm thingy with one from Marco in the USofA so now I have the mechanics of the flippers sorted , and am waiting for the next slow boat from US for 4 new genuine Atari flipper solenoids. When they arrive new flipper bats will also be going on, with all the other new bushes etc.

 

After a few muck around games I noticed not all of the microswitches were registering. I traced the problem back to what seems to be other a dry solder in the plug that goes to the main PCB or just bad contacts on the PCB itself. I have a new "hard edge connector" so I think I will take the time to solder each of the 20 or so multi coloured wires into it and see if it reduces the intermittency? That will test my OCD nicely.

 

Atari Schamari, I WILL get this thing going!!!!

 

Any help or advice on these last two issues would be greatly appreciated.

 

Still NO lights! I am concerned with this as the lights worked when I first turned it on when I got the machine. I have double checked the fuses and all plugs. :unsure I have a feeling it might have something to do with the large transistors on the auxiliary PCB, cos I read somewhere they are the "lamp driver transistors" and it is advised to instal an extra fuse block to protect these, which is not on my machine! I will in due course put one in myself.

 

Score board works to some extent! Fine for one player, fine for two players. But if I try to put 3 or 4 up it goes very odd numbers half on numbers fading on and off with no real idea what the scores are. I think this might also be a power issue as the scoreboard needs 180VAC to light up the segments, and it only gets odd when it has too much to do?

 

Also what is the best source for a glass top? How thick are tops usually? This being unusually wide body will no doubt need to be custom cut and toughened.

There is a GJames Glass in Toowoomba so I was going to try them fist as I know they do toughened glass?

 

Cheers,

Graham

 

 

 

I have a BIG garage Bro :laugh:

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Time for an update before I forget everything I have done in the last few weeks.

 

I have been on annual leave, with nowhere to go...So every spare hour has been spent in the shed on one project or another.

Subsequently I have been making some headway on the Middle Earth.

LIGHTS! I, with the help of my tame electronics engineer, traced the issue to a bad transistor on the auxiliary board. To be certain I removed it and tested it out of the circuit. Yep fried! As a further test I applied 12volts from a small motorbike battery to the circuit where the transistor should have supplied power, and hey presto lights everywhere! I am now waiting for a new transistor to arrive from the UK! None in Aus from any of the electronics suppliers I could find.

 

I replaced the old leaf switches on the flipper buttons with micro switches. Let's see how long they last without spark arresting capacitors?

 

I plan to replace all the card edge connectors with new as there still seems to be occasional issues which I put down to bad contacts. If something doesn't work I trace the wire, give it a wiggle at the connector and it usually works.

 

The chrome on the legs and side rails was all rusty so I cleaned it all up, coat of rust converter, etch primer then hammertone silver. I am not really impressed with the finish as it came out more grey than silver, but at least it is all clean and uniform.

The coin door got a sandblast and satin black refinish. Then a credit button using the wiring from one of the coin slot micros, installed into one of the owl eyes. I did this in a way that could be reversed, if I ever found the rest of the internals to make the coin mech work. Also a nice printed 20¢ 1 Play!

 

Pop bumpers also got an overhaul, or should I say replacement as the only thing i reused above the playfield was the Atari top! New sleeves in all the solenoids.

 

The ball return kicker was woefully weak, so I gave it an overhaul then re-made a ball return ramp. This was missing, probably due to the weak kicker not being able to shoot the ball hard enough to get it up the entry edge of the ramp. works a treat now!

 

I have tested LEDs in every light socket in the machine and contrary to everything I have read they work, as long as they are non ghosting LEDs! White under all the orange discs and green under all the white discs. I also used green for the rollovers and behind one of the drop targets. All the rest will be purple as these looked the best under the purple plastic, and don't over glare the playfield.

 

Jobs yet to do:

Rebuild all flippers I have 4 nice new Atari solenoids and new flippers, so they will all be the same now.

Clean and rebuild drop target.

New card edge connectors. ( Leaving this 'til last, lots of wires and a steady hand!)

Clean, polish and wax playfield.

Replace all rubbers.

Put it all back together and cross my fingers that no new problem rears it's ugly head!

Then I can get back to my '26 Chev.

 

Cheers,

Graham.

 

 

 

I have a Big garage Bro:laugh:

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I replaced the old leaf switches on the flipper buttons with micro switches. Let's see how long they last without spark arresting capacitors?

 

 

Make sure the micro can handle the load. Grab some that can handle 10amps and you won't have a problem. I did a Stellar Wars years ago with micro cabinet switches. I used the old leaf stack with only one copper blade so the button pressure felt the same and positioned the micro arm on the blade. That machine had excellent flippers and never needed to burnish the cabinet contacts again. No spark arresting capacitors used on that machine.

Now I have a Black Pyramid. Micro switches replaced the EOS switches on this one but still original cabinet switches. Using similar 10amp micros as I used on the Stellar Wars. Put a spark arresting capacitor on these micros. Haven't had to touch the flippers for some time now and always strong flippers.

 

Advantages as I see it.

Micros are easy to adjust exactly as you want them especially when replacing the EOS and they never go out of adjustment or need cleaning unlike copper blades.

 

Because a micro is either completely off or completely on, there should be far less spark jumping between the contacts, ( with or without a cap)

 

Less spark jumping means less carbon build up.

 

Less carbon build up means full voltage get to coils so flipper coils should stay stronger and last longer.

 

I might do a machine with both cabinet and Eos switches as micros one day.;)

 

Your a brave man taking on an Atari by the way. Enjoying you thread.

 

 

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