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  • WPC 5V reset workaround.

    This looks interesting.

    http://www.kahr.us

  • #2
    It is interesting but it is still a "bodge" or a patch and it doesn't address the root cause of the problem which could still be lurking in the machine waiting to cause other problems that we have never seen before.....there is a very valid reason the designers included the reset circuit all those years ago........

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    • #3
      Good for a quick fix though? Like at a meet or comp? I usually keep a spare driver board for the very same reason though.

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      • #4
        Better just to fix the issue causing the problem, rather than putting a Band-Aid on it.

        Regards,

        Johns-Arcade.

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        • #5
          Like Hashman said, I can see that having one of those adaptors around would be handy to get you out of trouble (in the short term) all the same. Pins always seem to break down at the most inopportune times. That is, when you have a house full of people wanting to play them!

          I would be pretty unhappy if I bought a pin and it had one of these boards instead of a repair on a faulty board.

          Dave
          ************************************************** *******************
          Remember--The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for checking out my new daughterboards

            Aussiearcade,

            Thanks for taking a look at my new daughterboard solution for WPC resets. I saw my website was linked at the beginning of the thread but wanted to make sure you see the technical details of how the daughterboard changes the power loads for the better throughout the machine - http://www.kahr.us/index2.html. There is also an informative article at http://creditdotpinball.com/2014/04/...daughterboard/ . Finally there is a long discussion about my daughterboards on pinside at http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/top...-wpc-era-games.

            The downside is that Virginia is a long way from Australia. I will look into what it costs to ship to Australia and add a paypal button to my website to cut the ebay fee and the pain of their global shipping program. I have to attach a customs form to each shipment; I have no idea whether Australia would look for recipients to pay a tax/duty for importing.

            -Rob

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            • #7
              Originally posted by rkahr View Post
              Aussiearcade,

              Thanks for taking a look at my new daughterboard solution for WPC resets. I saw my website was linked at the beginning of the thread but wanted to make sure you see the technical details of how the daughterboard changes the power loads for the better throughout the machine - http://www.kahr.us/index2.html. There is also an informative article at http://creditdotpinball.com/2014/04/...daughterboard/ . Finally there is a long discussion about my daughterboards on pinside at http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/top...-wpc-era-games.

              The downside is that Virginia is a long way from Australia. I will look into what it costs to ship to Australia and add a paypal button to my website to cut the ebay fee and the pain of their global shipping program. I have to attach a customs form to each shipment; I have no idea whether Australia would look for recipients to pay a tax/duty for importing.

              -Rob
              No tax/duty when it's under $1,000

              Get the shipping down to a reasonable rate and you'll probably sell a boat load over here.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rod71 View Post
                No tax/duty when it's under $1,000

                Get the shipping down to a reasonable rate and you'll probably sell a boat load over here.
                So I put Australia on my web site today with the EU for US$33 including shipping because the US Post Office quoted me $8 to ship it. Now, the padded envelopes I use to ship will hold 4 and stay under the weight limit so I could do four in a single shipment for US$108 (33 for the first one and 25 for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th). Would there be interest in that?

                I don't have a boat load but I am reasonably stocked - about 95 built/tested, 50 half-built, and parts in route for 200 more. That may sound like a lot but going into the Allentown, PA pinball show a week ago I had just over 200. I'm not giving up - if I do run out it will be temporary and I will restock.

                -Rob

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rkahr View Post
                  So I put Australia on my web site today with the EU for US$33 including shipping because the US Post Office quoted me $8 to ship it. Now, the padded envelopes I use to ship will hold 4 and stay under the weight limit so I could do four in a single shipment for US$108 (33 for the first one and 25 for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th). Would there be interest in that?

                  I don't have a boat load but I am reasonably stocked - about 95 built/tested, 50 half-built, and parts in route for 200 more. That may sound like a lot but going into the Allentown, PA pinball show a week ago I had just over 200. I'm not giving up - if I do run out it will be temporary and I will restock.

                  -Rob
                  $8 is excellent. Would cost that to send it domestically over here with our rip off postal service.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rod71 View Post
                    $8 is excellent. Would cost that to send it domestically over here with our rip off postal service.
                    Ok. The 4-pack for $108 is now on http://www.kahr.us .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What a fantastic and efficient re-routing solution! It reduces the existing 5v load, removes excess heat from the 12v reg and transfers excess current from the 12v line for clean MPU operation. Right? I was going to add a new 240vac to 5vdc switch mode supply which would of involved much stuffing around. Your efficient solution destroys that idea. Kudos Rob!

                      Also, do you have a A 12 Volt Regulator order option for the four pack offer?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Finny View Post
                        Also, do you have a A 12 Volt Regulator order option for the four pack offer?
                        I can look into that, but I'm worried it will exceed the weight constraints. If you want 4 or more of them it would probably be better to just buy them directly from www.ezsbc.com. He offers a slight discount at a quantity of 4 (and again at 10 and again at 100) and I know he ships overseas because he has offered me some good insight that helped make my 4-pack solution possible. I've bought hundreds of their regulators now and can confidently recommend them.

                        Finny, you summarized it well in one sentence (something I'm not always good at...) Just to be clear, swapping out the 7812 for a switched regulator is an optional endeavor - my daughterboard will work (and not cause heating issues) without the swap-out.

                        And should the next owner not like the daughterboard, it will be much easier to un-install than the power supply solution you describe.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rkahr View Post
                          I can look into that, but I'm worried it will exceed the weight constraints.
                          I looked into it and it does exceed the weight limit. The good news is it will only add in the neighborhood of 50 to 75 cents to the shipping. Is there interest in a 4-pack of daughterboards with the 12-volt regulators for US$137 (same math for $108 plus $7 per regulator plus an extra buck to cover the shipping) or is what's posted sufficient? If there's interest I'll add the paypal button to my site (www.kahr.us).

                          -Rob

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So are you marketing this as a 'fix' or a temporary workaround as was described earlier in the thread by another..?

                            I think its great, having a pinball meet and you get the dreaded reset - 5 minutes later, and your back in action.

                            Very nice.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by WOKA View Post
                              So are you marketing this as a 'fix' or a temporary workaround as was described earlier in the thread by another..?
                              Woka,

                              First, thanks for the compliment...

                              Next, I get asked similar questions a good bit; I'm going to offer excerpts from the creditdotpinball article to expand on my current thinking that (1) because my daughterboard solution improves the balance of the power loading within the WPC system it is good to have installed but (2) temporary or long-term installation is really up to the pinball owner. You can see the whole article at http://creditdotpinball.com/2014/04/...daughterboard/ .

                              CD: What do you say to critics who dub your product as a “Band-Aid” solution? That it ignores a much larger problem by temporarily patching it up and ignoring it?
                              RK: I get that logic, but I really think I attacked this problem from a more holistic viewpoint. This little daughterboard fundamentally changes the calculus that is power distribution within WPC era games. Why do NASCAR drivers change tires mid-race? If they would just slow down they could get a lot more miles out of those tires! Obviously they are pushing the limits of the tires on every turn to eek out a faster time. The WPC 5-volt rail is similar in that it runs close enough to design thresholds that when it is not pristine problems surface. By reducing the 5-volt load, my daughterboard backs the design away from that bleeding edge and that is better for the MPU and everything that remains on the PDB-derived 5-volt supply.

                              CD: Who do you see as the main buyers of your daughterboard? Casual players? Tinkerers?
                              RK: Based on feedback from purchases the spectrum spans from folks who have never opened their backbox to professionals repair shops who maintain machines for others. Some are sitting in tool boxes waiting for a need; others are installed in machines and forgotten about. One was returned because the individual still had resets – he used my board to rule out a 5-volt rail problem, fixed a diode problem elsewhere and then sent the daughterboard back. Go figure.
                              I personally think it is more interesting to ask where along the well-documented path of best practices for addressing WPC resets should different experience levels reach to my daughterboard. Said another way, if I were the author of Pinwiki, where would I insert “install a daughterboard”? For some it would be very near the end (if at all). For others it should be inserted before a soldering iron is plugged in. And for yet another subset it should be shortly after the “open the backbox” step. I am confident that for everybody it should be ahead of the resistor hack – especially if traces are being cut to separate the regulator from ground. Otherwise it’s debatable – I don’t know where exactly I would insert it into Pinwiki.

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