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  • Restored machines by nobody

    Ok, I'm pretty sure some will flame me here but wondering peoples thoughts on machines that are restored by....nobodies?!?

    I mean this in the most respectful way but if Hot Rodded, or Nino, or Scott Seedsman or Geoff did resto's then I can understand paying a higher premium for these games. Some of these guys have done it for years, have skill and knowledge in restoring play fields or decalling machines and do it for a living so need to cover overheads if in factories or wages to pay themselves etc.

    But if I restored a machine, no matter how......sending my pf'd to someone, the cabinet to someone else, changing a few mechs over to new, the playfeild swap and lets say spent x amount of hours on a machine, is it right for me to charge a premium over and above what it should be worth?

    I guess I just don't get it. I've always put mods or other upgrades like chroming, led's, mirror blades etc on a game because I wanted to. Not in the hope it would add $$$'s of dollars to the value so I can make a profit.

    Am I missing something? Not reading what collectors want regardless of who does the work?


  • #2
    I don’t see a problem if the works done well my problem is when people charge the premium without doing the work

    Comment


    • #3
      if you were to see in person games restored by KJS or MAV both backyarders in the sence they do it under their house the quality of just either of these 2 mentioned would leave you stunned id say better than those you mentioned and yes i have seen examples and owned some of tims work

      Comment


      • #4
        Each game commands a price based on its own merits. Buyers should be inspecting games or, if interstate, be having independent people look at them on their behalf. In any case, if the restoration is first class it will show to an observant buyer. If it is restored by a known person/team then I can see that a premium can be in order.

        Overall I say pay a fair price based on what you see, your own eyes do not tell fibs.

        We are lucky that there are quality restorers in our hobby, but there are shonks too. Buyers need to be educated as to which is which.
        ************************************************** *******************
        Remember--The early bird catches the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!

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        • #5
          the people you mentioned have earned a reputation, but there was a time when they were nobodies
          Nino has a nice workshop now, but there was a time where he worked out of his garage,

          they will also spend time/money on things that are important. lacing wiring looms is no the top of any collectors priorities

          Comment


          • #6
            I've just finished restoring my 3rd pin and will start my fourth soon. From my perspective, having a "name" restore a pin (or part of it) is tangible when it comes to the pins value. My last two cabinets were done by Geoff pinball Perfection as he's highly fastidious and skilled. Spraying is beyond me and many, but there are plenty of aspects of a restoration that can be done by someone only mildly skilled. I have no problem in spending exorbitant amounts of time on fiddly stuff that the the pro's may not due to budget/time and in these cases my result 'may' even be better. I don't expect my pins would be as "valuable" as ones restored completely by a pro, but to see/play in person, you'd be hard pressed to question the time put into the restoration. Whether it's a backyarder or a pro shouldn't matter, the proof should be in the pudding.

            Check out the High End Pins thread on Pinside, he goes to amazing lengths in his restorations. Resto Porn!
            Pins in: Funhouse ~ Whirlwind ~ Monster Bash LE ~ Quicksilver ~ JPLE ~ Attack From Mars LE
            Pins out: Star Trek The Next Gen ~ White Water ~ Big Hurt ~ Johnny Mnemonic ~ The Shadow ~ Taxi

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by ddstoys View Post
              I don’t see a problem if the works done well my problem is when people charge the premium without doing the work
              That is exactly the problem. Some see there machine on EBay or at auctions and expect there one to be worth the same amount or more, never less. All this does is drive the prices up and a lot of people pissed off when they receive something that either doesn't work, is not as described or stops working very quickly.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ddstoys View Post
                I don’t see a problem if the works done well my problem is when people charge the premium without doing the work
                This!!

                Very good point.

                I am just amazed at "nobodies" "restoring" machines these days and trying to get top dollar because they think their time is worth money that I will pay for.........nope!

                I am seeing it more and more in this hobby.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yeah sadly it’s more about money than enjoyment these days,

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by spaceballs View Post

                    This!!

                    Very good point.

                    I am just amazed at "nobodies" "restoring" machines these days and trying to get top dollar because they think their time is worth money that I will pay for.........nope!

                    I am seeing it more and more in this hobby.
                    Are you just talking about people who aim to solely make a profit from poor quality restoration? Is this extremely common?

                    Plenty of people restore their own machines because they enjoy it, and naturally the average buyer will pay more for a machine that looks good. I don't really see this as manifestly dishonest, unless there is some sort of claim that the 'garage restoration' is showroom quality and 'as new'. The high quality restorations will still command a higher premium which discerning buyers may be willing to pay. Doesn't mean the 'garage' resto is worth nothing.
                    The name's Max; Bond Max

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Dont forget " Boof " he turns out a killer machine, really good with the playfield restores also.
                      "Lost in the Zone"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes, there are quite of few guys that churn out some really nice 'high end' restorations indeed.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by maxi View Post

                          Are you just talking about people who aim to solely make a profit from poor quality restoration? Is this extremely common?

                          Plenty of people restore their own machines because they enjoy it, and naturally the average buyer will pay more for a machine that looks good. I don't really see this as manifestly dishonest, unless there is some sort of claim that the 'garage restoration' is showroom quality and 'as new'. The high quality restorations will still command a higher premium which discerning buyers may be willing to pay. Doesn't mean the 'garage' resto is worth nothing.
                          Totally agree. I find the restoration process super cathartic and am very chuffed with how mine turned out. If I was to sell them, I would title them as "restored" and expect them to be valued as such. There are plenty of backyarders restoring classic cars producing amazing results. I'm sure they don't expect the value of what a pro commands, but their time/results do have a tangible value.
                          Pins in: Funhouse ~ Whirlwind ~ Monster Bash LE ~ Quicksilver ~ JPLE ~ Attack From Mars LE
                          Pins out: Star Trek The Next Gen ~ White Water ~ Big Hurt ~ Johnny Mnemonic ~ The Shadow ~ Taxi

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by flynnyfalcon View Post

                            Totally agree. I find the restoration process super cathartic and am very chuffed with how mine turned out. If I was to sell them, I would title them as "restored" and expect them to be valued as such. There are plenty of backyarders restoring classic cars producing amazing results. I'm sure they don't expect the value of what a pro commands, but their time/results do have a tangible value.
                            Exactly. Some people, like myself restore machines out of passion, the satisfaction and the enjoyment I get from it. Never to just sell to make a dollar..............I have a full time job that pays much better than resto work anyway, so could never restore as a main job. It's just a hobby for the time being. Transforming a 25yr old dirty, dusty, tired, faded artwork machine into a piece of art, that in many ways is better than it was new, is so satisfying.

                            For some reason I prefer restoration as opposed to playing, perhaps because of my playing skill level? I don't have a business, call myself a professional or do it full time, so basically a 'nobody'. I admit my skills are limited (cannot do electronic board work, airbrush & clear coat playfields, etc) , but would like to think for what I am capable of and do, the level of restoration is right up there. (many AA members have seen and own my 'more recent work'). Does that make the work I do less valuable when a machine is one day sold, compared to professional restorers that run and operate a business? They have the years of experience with skills acquired over time, and higher costs associated with running a business. I have no issue with this at all. If a person employs anyone to restore a machine, it's an agreement between the two parties and that's it. No one is forcing anyone to use and pay for anyones services, as it's a personal choice who they use and what they pay.

                            I've seen many restored machines from many restorers around Australia. There are some absolute ripper, high end, above and beyond jobs to some pretty basic hack jobs obviously done to sell a machine at a higher price, and everything in between.

                            Like Dave stated, "Each game commands a price based on its own merits". We are all in the hobby and I'd expect most of us can tell the level and quality of a restore. Irrelevant of who restored it and where it was restored, it will be priced and sold accordingly. A pinball machine is worth as much as someone is prepared to pay for it. Some of the best machines I have seen have been done by 'nobodies' in their garages or backyards. Nothing wrong with that.

                            I liken it to our family my car. It's a BMW that comes with 5yrs of complimentary scheduled servicing. Unfortunately brake pads/rotors, tyres, wiper blades, etc, are not covered by this. Early this year BMW quoted me $1200 for front pads, rotors and brake sensors and another $170 for front wheel alignment. I took it to my local mechanic working out of his old factory who I've known for years. He charged me $550 cash for the exact same brake work and exact same make and model of parts were used. Then I took the car to Beaurepaires opposite my work and they did the wheel alignment for $50. I'm sure the work completed was done the same way as what the BMW mechanic would do, but I just paid less. BMW have higher overhead costs and pay for high end advertising. It was a personal choice to get the work done by whoever I chose. Many would pay BMW for the work as they can then provide receipts when selling the car in the hope they achieve a better price, and nothing wrong with that. Same with pinball restoration. It's all personal choice.

                            Last year I viewed and played a privately owned 1991 B/W machine originally restored by Tim at HRP. It was a pretty amazing and beautiful restoration, but unfortunately the machine was not maintained well over the years. The asking price was very high considering the title and current overall condition. Around the same time I viewed and played another fully restored 1992 B/W machine by two AA members (one member did the playfiled and the other member the rest). This thing was also amazing and a very similar level of restoration. Who's work is worth more? Who's work is better?

                            Dave is right - "Each game commands a price based on its own merits"

                            Apologies for the bloody long post...............

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well said Glenn. The limited ones I have done were for me. A labour of love and in no way perfect but we all try to emulate what we see. I got most of my inspiration from HEP, Tim and others here and was way way down the ladder from some of their high standard but was pretty happy with the results. If I tried to sell for what hours I had in them they would still be for sale. It’s nice when someone likes what they see and makes you an offer. There are a LOT of guys here doing way above a backyard resto nowadays. Good luck to all who try. It’s all part of the enjoyment of this hobby.
                              PINBALL gotta love it

                              "There's no such thing as too much bling"

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