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  • #46
    Originally posted by BioBa View Post
    Not quite sure what you mean by "post protectors"? I sell sling shot protectors but have not seen ot heard of post protectors?
    My bad I thought they looked like you could use them under posts

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by pinball god View Post
      My bad I thought they looked like you could use them under posts
      Maybe you can repurpose them. You are thinking outside the square lol.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by The Pinball Shed View Post
        Just buy them and play them.
        Really? if you bought a new car and the paint fell off after a couple of drives would you be satisfied and just drive it?

        I retract what I said about playfield protectors above because it has been stated that they don't help with this issue and the clear and art will still chip away under the protector.

        Yep there are different levels of how much this has affected some people, but that is not an excuse to be totally dismissive IMO.
        Winter is here and I'm still riding more than gaming, my current goal = 100,000 meters elevation gain for the year - well ahead so far

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Koops View Post
          Bruce at amd told me that they unbox and check machines (I don’t know what they check and may only be le’s as that was what I was discussing at the time).

          I haven’t yet asked but does anyone know if they’d classify these blisters as defects?

          From the jp2 posts on pinside it seems that machines can be delivered and are cosmetically perfect but within a few days of play can exhibit these issues (sling rubber + coil activations causing extra pressure on posts perhaps?)

          Given the time they sit on a ship for aus stock could these issues present themselves right out of the box?


          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
          Apparently AMD do but not check well in my situation as I purchased a new B66 (late 2018) and got it home, played 6 games on the same day and after the excitement of a new game and then checked the game closer to learn the rules and inserts features etc on the same day noticed bubbling / pooling clear around posts and where the apron meets the playfield to the point that if you push it with your finger and the bubble moves around = art / clear separation from the playfield. So yes regardless of travel it is fresh out of the box.

          I know a few people with these issues and it appears to be where the clear coat is over art and not necessarily over clear over the timber finish which points to the issue being a reaction / separation between the printed ink and the clearcoat.

          When I contacted AMD they were good from one perspective that they said if you are not happy return it for a full refund but would not re-imburse the costs for freight which under Aus law they should but did not want to cause dramas as I wanted to purchase games in the future but was a $500 loss straight up for the freight costs. I do worry for the next person if they got my old machine or if the game was fixed. I was on the list for Munsters but all communication stopped after the B66 return so I'm probably black listed now - sad but I suppose something for your guys to consider.

          Regardless of what the Stern Warranty is the Australian Fair Trading law protects you from defective products like blistering, pooling, lifting artwork as this is defective and some of my US friends have had IM populated playfields replaced similar to the GB replacement program but Stern never makes this very public. There are a couple of people that went the rubber washer suggestions and they still have issues will rippling now occurring wider out.

          For you guys buying new games I would be nervous about new purchases like the Elvira LE and Signatures as even with the recent Jurassic's they moved the art and black outline more away from the posts to avoid the issue but some hidden posts left and pooling started again and you have to wonder what will happen to these playfields in a few years time as you won't have Consumer Affairs rights by then.

          I was talking to a mate who was a spray painter and now an automotive paint seller and he believes that it is the new eco friendly acrylic paints & clears and they need alot of things to go right - chemical reaction, humidity and environment and time to cure between colour and clears - they need to be similar product brands etc. It has to make you wonder given that chemical reactions etc have to be perfect between the direct to playfield printer ink and clearcoat recipe - has to be perfect.

          Here are some comments from the auto industry - on acrylic versus urethane

          https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/p...ic-automotive/
          and this one talks of arcylic clears chipping
          https://www.hemmings.com/blog/articl...c-vs-urethane/

          then when you read into it the acrylic clears need a suitable base to bite in so a printed playfield artwork / inks may have negative reactions to an acrylic clear.

          I created a few alternatives to minimize the issue and hide any pooling for the interim but installing these may void any Stern / JJP warranty so just be aware. I make no money form these (but Shapeways do) BUT if you become a Shapeways member you can download the STL files for free and print your own - just trying to help.

          https://www.shapeways.com/marketplac...=swinkspooling

          Comment


          • #50
            Sorry to hear about your bad experience Jady.
            Very interesting theory you have put forward re likely reason for this new playfields issue.
            Luckily I am old school so not wanting to buy a NIB pin.

            Cheers
            Dave

            Sent from my SM-A520F using Aussie Arcade mobile app

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by swinks View Post
              Apparently AMD do but not check well in my situation as I purchased a new B66 (late 2018) and got it home, played 6 games on the same day and after the excitement of a new game and then checked the game closer to learn the rules and inserts features etc on the same day noticed bubbling / pooling clear around posts and where the apron meets the playfield to the point that if you push it with your finger and the bubble moves around = art / clear separation from the playfield. So yes regardless of travel it is fresh out of the box.

              I know a few people with these issues and it appears to be where the clear coat is over art and not necessarily over clear over the timber finish which points to the issue being a reaction / separation between the printed ink and the clearcoat.

              When I contacted AMD they were good from one perspective that they said if you are not happy return it for a full refund but would not re-imburse the costs for freight which under Aus law they should but did not want to cause dramas as I wanted to purchase games in the future but was a $500 loss straight up for the freight costs. I do worry for the next person if they got my old machine or if the game was fixed. I was on the list for Munsters but all communication stopped after the B66 return so I'm probably black listed now - sad but I suppose something for your guys to consider.

              Regardless of what the Stern Warranty is the Australian Fair Trading law protects you from defective products like blistering, pooling, lifting artwork as this is defective and some of my US friends have had IM populated playfields replaced similar to the GB replacement program but Stern never makes this very public. There are a couple of people that went the rubber washer suggestions and they still have issues will rippling now occurring wider out.

              For you guys buying new games I would be nervous about new purchases like the Elvira LE and Signatures as even with the recent Jurassic's they moved the art and black outline more away from the posts to avoid the issue but some hidden posts left and pooling started again and you have to wonder what will happen to these playfields in a few years time as you won't have Consumer Affairs rights by then.

              I was talking to a mate who was a spray painter and now an automotive paint seller and he believes that it is the new eco friendly acrylic paints & clears and they need alot of things to go right - chemical reaction, humidity and environment and time to cure between colour and clears - they need to be similar product brands etc. It has to make you wonder given that chemical reactions etc have to be perfect between the direct to playfield printer ink and clearcoat recipe - has to be perfect.

              Here are some comments from the auto industry - on acrylic versus urethane

              https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/p...ic-automotive/
              and this one talks of arcylic clears chipping
              https://www.hemmings.com/blog/articl...c-vs-urethane/

              then when you read into it the acrylic clears need a suitable base to bite in so a printed playfield artwork / inks may have negative reactions to an acrylic clear.

              I created a few alternatives to minimize the issue and hide any pooling for the interim but installing these may void any Stern / JJP warranty so just be aware. I make no money form these (but Shapeways do) BUT if you become a Shapeways member you can download the STL files for free and print your own - just trying to help.

              https://www.shapeways.com/marketplac...=swinkspooling
              That's the stuff I was thinking may help but I thought of it bei g made of rubber to act like an o ring type cushioning effect

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Benny View Post
                Has anyone received a repro playfield from Mirco recently since these issues have arisen, that can confirm there are no issues with the clear? I am reading so many mixed reports on Pinside..

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by will986 View Post
                  The Quicksilver that was at BPAC in Bris had a Mirco repro playfield & had pooling around the sling posts.
                  So, yes, all Mirco playfields are questionable.

                  To open another can of worms...
                  Anyone seen or heard that Mirco uses a vinyl ‘underlay’ for artwork on repro playfields instead of silkscreen or digital printing?
                  I’ve heard reports of people drilling/repairing Mirco repros & finding plastic shite under the clear that shouldn’t be there.
                  there is some layer of polycarb used but not sure why?
                  Australian Distributors for Planetary Pinball, Chicago Gaming, American Pinball.
                  Your one Stop Shop For New Pinball & Arcade Games.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Well going to hold off for now then.

                    ,Was looking at buying at least 2 playfields from Mirco, but the last thing i want after putting over 50 hours in a playfield swap is my playfield chipping or pooling after playing my second ball, i really hope these issues get resolved quickly they are certainly a worry

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      I was considering a NIB purchase of IM or JP2 but these playfield issues are the final straw. I have now spent my pinball money on a new Mountain bike instead.
                      I will wait a year or so and see if Stern can make a quality pin.

                      Sent from my SM-A505YN using Aussie Arcade mobile app
                      Winter is here and I'm still riding more than gaming, my current goal = 100,000 meters elevation gain for the year - well ahead so far

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Just so you know Mirco Doesn't Make New Playfields for Stern
                        Australian Distributors for Planetary Pinball, Chicago Gaming, American Pinball.
                        Your one Stop Shop For New Pinball & Arcade Games.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by swinks View Post
                          Apparently AMD do but not check well in my situation as I purchased a new B66 (late 2018) and got it home, played 6 games on the same day and after the excitement of a new game and then checked the game closer to learn the rules and inserts features etc on the same day noticed bubbling / pooling clear around posts and where the apron meets the playfield to the point that if you push it with your finger and the bubble moves around = art / clear separation from the playfield. So yes regardless of travel it is fresh out of the box.

                          I know a few people with these issues and it appears to be where the clear coat is over art and not necessarily over clear over the timber finish which points to the issue being a reaction / separation between the printed ink and the clearcoat.

                          When I contacted AMD they were good from one perspective that they said if you are not happy return it for a full refund but would not re-imburse the costs for freight which under Aus law they should but did not want to cause dramas as I wanted to purchase games in the future but was a $500 loss straight up for the freight costs. I do worry for the next person if they got my old machine or if the game was fixed. I was on the list for Munsters but all communication stopped after the B66 return so I'm probably black listed now - sad but I suppose something for your guys to consider.

                          Regardless of what the Stern Warranty is the Australian Fair Trading law protects you from defective products like blistering, pooling, lifting artwork as this is defective and some of my US friends have had IM populated playfields replaced similar to the GB replacement program but Stern never makes this very public. There are a couple of people that went the rubber washer suggestions and they still have issues will rippling now occurring wider out.

                          For you guys buying new games I would be nervous about new purchases like the Elvira LE and Signatures as even with the recent Jurassic's they moved the art and black outline more away from the posts to avoid the issue but some hidden posts left and pooling started again and you have to wonder what will happen to these playfields in a few years time as you won't have Consumer Affairs rights by then.

                          I was talking to a mate who was a spray painter and now an automotive paint seller and he believes that it is the new eco friendly acrylic paints & clears and they need alot of things to go right - chemical reaction, humidity and environment and time to cure between colour and clears - they need to be similar product brands etc. It has to make you wonder given that chemical reactions etc have to be perfect between the direct to playfield printer ink and clearcoat recipe - has to be perfect.

                          Here are some comments from the auto industry - on acrylic versus urethane

                          https://www.thomasnet.com/articles/p...ic-automotive/
                          and this one talks of arcylic clears chipping
                          https://www.hemmings.com/blog/articl...c-vs-urethane/

                          then when you read into it the acrylic clears need a suitable base to bite in so a printed playfield artwork / inks may have negative reactions to an acrylic clear.

                          I created a few alternatives to minimize the issue and hide any pooling for the interim but installing these may void any Stern / JJP warranty so just be aware. I make no money form these (but Shapeways do) BUT if you become a Shapeways member you can download the STL files for free and print your own - just trying to help.

                          https://www.shapeways.com/marketplac...=swinkspooling
                          Can you please tell us how you think your idea/product will minimise the pooling issue?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by pinballaddicted View Post
                            Can you please tell us how you think your idea/product will minimise the pooling issue?
                            I never said that they will solve or minimise but only hide as some people don't like to look at it.

                            "hide any pooling for the interim"

                            people have already tried larger plastic washers & neoprene washers under larger star posts and the problem only extends out further. I had a game that had this issue and it frustrated and annoyed me looking at it so this is just a free option for those wanting to cover it up until a possible solution is issued, that's all, just trying to help.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by swinks View Post
                              I never said that they will solve or minimise but only hide as some people don't like to look at it.

                              "hide any pooling for the interim"

                              people have already tried larger plastic washers & neoprene washers under larger star posts and the problem only extends out further. I had a game that had this issue and it frustrated and annoyed me looking at it so this is just a free option for those wanting to cover it up until a possible solution is issued, that's all, just trying to help.
                              "I created a few alternatives to minimize the issue and hide any pooling for the interim"

                              Sorry mate, I took that as minimising the pooling issue, not minimising the visual issues cause by pooling. All good.

                              Comment

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