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do death saves damage your machine?


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well as the title suggests do death saves damage your machine? i my self don't think so, nothing more satisfying than the death save if you can pull it off whilst not setting off the tilt. i'm aware that it's an illegal move in any comp , did a great one yesterday on flintstones much to @Jesder 's amazement :p & its fitted with anti guard rails :o

 

I don't believe it causes any damage but others may have other ideas ?

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It depends heavily on what kind of floor surface and what kind of fluff people have fitted to their leg levelers.

 

Eg.

 

Synthetic hard floating floor with standard leg levelers : minimal damage (since stresses are significantly reduced and machine can slide more freely)

 

Carpet with rubber feet over levelers : Extreme grip. Attempt a death save and rip the corner out of your new stern. :lol

 

Those are merely examples. But it's all about resistance....

 

Of course lightweight machines like sterns can be "lifted" at the front fairly easy, but in the carpet example this saves the front corners of cabinet but still stresses heavily on the back legs as the machine lurches sideways on direction and the grippy back legs cant move. Crack. :(

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No damage, but great fun and satisfying if to pull off without a tilt. I’ve got quite good at it and when I played my second comp, i death saved in front of the td. [emoji51]

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Arcade

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probably wrecks the floor ,not the machine. might be good for the player doing it ,but if your playing next to someone that does it ,it puts you write off.makes me quite angry like people lifting it on to legs in anger after the ball has drained.
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It depends on whether the corner join in the cabinet is coming apart. On some machines I've seen, a death save would make the cabinet fall apart!

 

I would speculate that the cabinet corner did not start "coming apart" all by itself... it would have needed encouragment. This is a kind of damage (machine abuse) that often happens incrimentally, little bits at a time, until one day it becomes too noticable. Pinball machines will take alot of punishment and not sustain major damage. Deathsaves though are uncalled for and destructive. Even when the floor is less grippy.

 

We have peoples private machines in our tourneys. I seen a death save at one of our events recently. Did not incur a tilt wtf? (yes there was "danger", but the treatment of the machine was beyond what we will accept in future) . Tilts will be getting tighter, and deathsaves will not be tolerated anymore, given the abuse peoples machines have occasionally been seen to recieve.

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I would speculate that the cabinet corner did not start "coming apart" all by itself... it would have needed encouragment. This is a kind of damage (machine abuse) that often happens incrimentally, little bits at a time, until one day it becomes too noticable. Pinball machines will take alot of punishment and not sustain major damage. Deathsaves though are uncalled for and destructive. Even when the floor is less grippy.

 

We have peoples private machines in our tourneys. I seen a death save at one of our events recently. Did not incur a tilt wtf? (yes there was "danger", but the treatment of the machine was beyond what we will accept in future) . Tilts will be getting tighter, and deathsaves will not be tolerated anymore, given the abuse peoples machines have occasionally been seen to recieve.

 

Yes the onus is on the owner setting the tilt where he wants it.

If you don't want it to happen, set your tilts tight.

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do death saves damage your machine?

 

Before I started playing Comps it had become automatic to do it on my machines at home obviously. I obviously had to change that for tournament play because it’s a disqualification. I’m not too precious about my home machines and don’t give a shit as long as someone doesn’t push to Pin through the window

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Before I started playing Comps it had become automatic to do it on my machines at home obviously. I obviously had to change that for tournament play because it’s a disqualification. I’m not too precious about my home machines and don’t give a shit as long as someone doesn’t push to Pin through the window

 

???:unsure

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Yes the onus is on the owner setting the tilt where he wants it.

If you don't want it to happen, set your tilts tight.

 

Totally agree!. Only hassle is the dumb stern thing with the excessive tiltbob debounce (the machine in question was an original AcDc premium). This meant a dethsave was performed giving only tilt warnings even though the tiltbob would have rattled around in there probably a dozen times. I guess if you own a stern you need to be happy to have your machine tossed about in tournaments?. :unsure

Edited by razorsedge
typos
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Yes the onus is on the owner setting the tilt where he wants it.

If you don't want it to happen, set your tilts tight.

 

On dmds the debounce can mean that u only get 2 warnings no matter how tight the tilt is set.

 

Death saves are illegal in comps and get u a zero for that game or disqualification from the whole tournament. Can’t remember which, I have never seen one in a tourney.

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I play two different acca's constantly.

Both dont have an issue tilting very easy.

 

Yes the tilt bob was reasonably tight and people were tilting the game (without deathsaving) ... yet still the deathsave in question got 2 dangers, and then carry on playing without a tilt...

 

Credit for a level of skill in some ways, but the ball should have been over.

 

We'll have to change something. :blink:

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On dmds the debounce can mean that u only get 2 warnings no matter how tight the tilt is set.

 

Death saves are illegal in comps and get u a zero for that game or disqualification from the whole tournament. Can’t remember which, I have never seen one in a tourney.

 

I didn't realise a deathsave (moving machine across floor from its positon) meant penalty regardless of whether tilt was registered. Thanks!

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

It’s a skill and should be rewarded imho if you can do it and not wear a tilt.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Arcade

 

I don't see excessive mistreatment of other peoples games as a skill that needs to be exercised.

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Personally, what you can get away with as a player is a player with a better understanding of the pinball. The machines doesn't tilt but is on the verge of tilting, so be it.

As for damaging the machine, if doing a death save damages a machine, the machine is very poorly made or maintained and not suitable for it's intended purpose.

If it pisses you off that much people "playing your machine with passion", wire a bounce tilt in parallel with the plumb bob tilt and the problem you perceive will be gone.

 

Bounce tilt....

http://www.pbresource.com/tilt/gtb-b9141.jpg

 

An old school idea but very effective at stopping exactly as you describe. Having people prowling around a tournament disqualifying players for something the machine itself should pick up and hand out the penalty is just a stupid idea in my opinion and is always going to be open to interpretation.

 

The whole idea of an amusement machine is to have a machine that does all things automatically without human intervention otherwise it isn't an amusement machine in my honest opinion.

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Personally, what you can get away with as a player is a player with a better understanding of the pinball. The machines doesn't tilt but is on the verge of tilting, so be it.

As for damaging the machine, if doing a death save damages a machine, the machine is very poorly made or maintained and not suitable for it's intended purpose.

If it pisses you off that much people "playing your machine with passion", wire a bounce tilt in parallel with the plumb bob tilt and the problem you perceive will be gone.

 

Bounce tilt....

http://www.pbresource.com/tilt/gtb-b9141.jpg

 

An old school idea but very effective at stopping exactly as you describe. Having people prowling around a tournament disqualifying players for something the machine itself should pick up and hand out the penalty is just a stupid idea in my opinion and is always going to be open to interpretation.

 

The whole idea of an amusement machine is to have a machine that does all things automatically without human intervention otherwise it isn't an amusement machine in my honest opinion.

 

No wiring that thing in paralel won't change a thing. It is the same. The excessive debounce will provide the Same outcome.

 

Each is entitled to their opinion. But, if players Damage peoples private machines doing uncalled for deathsaves those people don't bring them back to be mistreated again, then there are few machines to play.

 

The obvious solution is a ring marked on the floor around leg levelers. Leg leveler meets ring marked on floor, sorry it is over! Simple.

 

I do agree that Well Built games handle it to a degree, depending on the surface and grip level... trouble is Sterns are included in the tournament Lol

 

Even if a machine can take it, the owner is still entitled to not appreciate the disrespect for (and needless abuse of) their game.

 

At home do what you want. Other peoples machines that they generously provide for tourneys, you can play by Their standards. Period.

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Death save on location, definitely.

Death save at home, hell yeah (I've put B/W leg brackets on all my machines to strengthen corners)

Death save at friend's houses, only with Permission.

 

Most post 2000 sterns are very easy to death save, Playboy, NBA, Ironman, BM66, Kiss, Deadpoo, Beatles etc.

Can't death save on XMENLE (flippers offset to the left) or TWDLE ( small lip just before trough that changes angle of ball roll as it exits)

Personally I'm a big fan of the death save and have influenced a few locals to get on board. You only live once.

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No wiring that thing in paralel won't change a thing. It is the same. The excessive debounce will provide the Same outcome.

 

Each is entitled to their opinion. But, if players Damage peoples private machines doing uncalled for deathsaves they don't bring them back then there are few machines to play.

 

The obvious solution is a ring marked on the floor around leg levelers. Leg leveler meets ring marked on floor, sorry it is over! Simple.

 

I do agree that Well Built games handle it to a degree, depending on the surface and grip level... trouble is Sterns are included in the tournament Lol

 

Even if a machine can take it, the owner is still entitled to not appreciate it.

 

At home do what you want. Other peoples machines that the generously providefor tourneys, you can play by Their standards. Period.

 

Wire it in parallel to the front door slam switch then. If the machine tilts to game over, I can assure you, they won't try that again.

 

The solution has to be automatic and not open to interpretation in my opinion.

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Wire it in parallel to the front door slam switch then. If the machine tilts to game over, I can assure you, they won't try that again.

 

The solution has to be automatic and not open to interpretation in my opinion.

 

Yeah, I think a simple ring marked with a tolerance will be simplest and not punish other players for indiscressions of the offending player. Also not needing to modify 20+ games, most privately owned, and I'm sure they'd rather them not be messed around with, really.

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Yeah, I think a simple ring marked with a tolerance will be simplest and not punish other players for indiscressions of the offending player. Also not needing to modify 20+ games, most privately owned, and I'm sure they'd rather them not be messed around with, really.

 

Yer, It's a tough one but you need to remember, these tilts were originally factory fitted on pinballs to stop exactly what you are saying. How about getting on to Stern and ask for the Tournament mode to not feature this delay tilt strike feature?. Modding the code is not hard especially these days with USB uploading of the code.

Personally I think a feature that effects the way a machine tilts should have had an owner menu GUI adjustment On or Off controlling it but I can only assume Sterns do not.

Get on to them and get this oversight taken care of I say. Surely other World pinball tournaments are being frustrated by this exact problem.

Drawing rings on the ground will go some way but it really isn't a proper answer to the problem in tournaments is it?.

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