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Hold issue on MS8 - 26SE chassis

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  • Hold issue on MS8 - 26SE chassis

    Howdy,

    Just plugged in my (serviced and cleaned) chassis after finishing off the restore of my machine. This is what i get.

    screen.jpg

    Screen1.jpg

    I have noticed that the h.Hold dial is a little loose, when i tried to adjust it.

    Any ideas/recommendations?

  • #2
    Just to add a little more info. It worked the first time i plugged it in, however after i played a game for about 15 mins the lines would appear. I could only get it back to working by rebooting everything and starting up again. It then would work again for 15mins then go back to horizontal lines again. Now all i get is horizontal lines.

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    • #3
      Hey Leo,

      Thanks for quick reply.

      Yes this is a Mame setup.

      The image is scrambled like in pic from PC start up all the way to launching and running a game. However wasn't like that at the beginning, it has got progressively worse, and now like this every time i boot up.

      I plugged PC into a normal monitor and displays menu fine. That should rule out a card issue right?

      Sorry i am a bit of a N00b.
      Last edited by Shimple; 20 August 2014, 04:20 PM.

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      • #4
        Chiming in the video is running through a JPAC @ 15hz

        Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

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        • #5
          The J-PAC will prevent anything higher than a 15khz signal from damaging the monitor, but it is not a scan converter and will not convert a 31khz to 15khz. How is the video card running at 15khz? Software such a CRT_EMU or hardware such an an AVGA?

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          • #6
            I'm no expert, simply asking what the software/hardware interface is.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by namastepat View Post
              The J-PAC will prevent anything higher than a 15khz signal from damaging the monitor, but it is not a scan converter and will not convert a 31khz to 15khz. How is the video card running at 15khz? Software such a CRT_EMU or hardware such an an AVGA?
              It's using CRT_EmuDriver.

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              • #8
                dragonlee is correct , the only way you can safely use an MS8 Nanao is to delay powering the monitor until the MAME has fully loaded , it's all the odd frequency changes that happen during bootup that damages these chassis , in this case the Hybrid Sync module is damaged , they are not available as a spare part so need to be repaired.
                If you keep running it when this tearing starts to happen it will eventually go out of it's safe Horizontal frequency range and self destruct.

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                • #9
                  [MENTION=204]Jomac[/MENTION], this is very interesting to know. I have a Nanao MS8 (not sure of the exact model) that I use as a monitor in a Model 2 emulator driving cabinet. Thus far, I've never had an issue. It runs through a J-PAC and boots fine into a 24khz 1024x768 interlaced windows desktop. I then run Model 2 and 3 games at their native res of 496x384.

                  Should I be waiting for the PC to boot into a stable windows desktop before I turn on the monitor? That's easy enough for me to do, and if you think I should not be displaying the boot screens (even when scrambled through a J-PAC) I would like to know.

                  Thanks.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jomac View Post
                    dragonlee is correct , the only way you can safely use an MS8 Nanao is to delay powering the monitor until the MAME has fully loaded , it's all the odd frequency changes that happen during bootup that damages these chassis , in this case the Hybrid Sync module is damaged , they are not available as a spare part so need to be repaired.
                    If you keep running it when this tearing starts to happen it will eventually go out of it's safe Horizontal frequency range and self destruct.
                    Thanks for the update JOMAC. Just wondering when using groovymame through a JPAC the resolution does change for each game to the native game res, but the JPAC stops any unsafe frequencies. If the resolution keeps changing every time you change game would that also be an issue? or is it just the crazy bios screen? The JPAC will stop unsafe BIOS resolutions getting to the screen, that's why it's used.

                    I am guessing you are not talking about unsafe higher resolutions but just horizontal frequency changes in general with a MS8.

                    Would a better investment be to try find a 26" screen and use one of your chassis? from memory your chassis doesn't support these MS8 screens

                    thanks.

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                    • #11
                      These monitors are great and fine to use as long as the everything has finished stabilizing before the power is switched on , it seems to be that most have failed during the bios screen but plenty more have died from soft15k.
                      It's the frequency changes they are not designed for that causes the damage , the games they were designed for are Xtal locked to a set frequency that never changes , I don't recall this problem ever happening with these when used on a genuine arcade board.

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                      • #12
                        If the jumpers are set correctly, the JPAC should be halving/filtering out 25K and 31K frequencies from power on, that's why the BIOS and boot screens will typically be doubled.

                        http://www.ultimarc.com/jpac2.html
                        Can be set to divide line frequency by two so as to display a stableVGA picture on an arcade monitor for test purposes. (actually displays two pictures side by side)
                        Originally posted by Shimple View Post
                        I plugged PC into a normal monitor and displays menu fine. That should rule out a card issue right?
                        This sounds to me that although you have CRT Emudriver installed, you actually haven't setup and run vmmaker which will then set the driver into 15K mode? If you plug in a VGA monitor in a working CRT Emudriver system, you get no sync after BIOS/Windows bootup.

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                        • #13
                          Good to know, [MENTION=204]Jomac[/MENTION] I will wait until after boot and the J-PAC syncs until I switch my monitor on. The monitor is a beautiful monitor and I would hate for it to die.

                          When you say some have been killed by soft15k, do you know how exactly? The way CRT_EMU works is that as soon as Windows boots, it gets a stable image. The only time the image is unstable is when it is booting through bios, before the driver loads.

                          When using GroovyMAME, each game will change to a different res when it boots, could this also lead to undue stress on the chassis? None of the resolutions are outside of a standard 15k range of course, that's kind of the whole point of GroovyMAME. I assume that these kinds of resolution switches would not do any long term damage?

                          I only use mine for model 2, when Windows boots, it's 1024x768 interlaced, which is a 24khz res and perfectly stable (if flickery) due to the interlacing. However, when games boot, they boot into 496x384, their native Model 2 res. I also assume that this kind of res switching would be OK?

                          Sorry for all the questions, but I never knew that this monitor was an issue with MAME and the likes and want to make sure I do not kill it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The MS8 has a very tight frequency band in 15K mode , absolute min of 15.450khz and Max of 16.050Khz , optimal is 15.750Khz , it also has a tight vertical range between 54Hz and 60Hz.

                            When ever they are operated outside of this range there is push and pull amplifier ( part of the little Hybrid Sync Module )that attempts to clamp the frequencies within the safe range , so if it is being run and absolute min or max listed above the amplifier / clamping section is working at maximum , if you exceed these limits these chassis most of the time are able to cope when the chassis is in perfect working condition.
                            I have measure on a CRO watching all sorts of Mame setups that are supposed to be blocking everything outside of 15K but at startup before there is even anything displayed I have seen anywhere from 13K to 17K before they settle to somewhere in the 15K range.

                            By no means am I saying don't use these monitors , I am only stating that 99% of all the failures I see with the Sync section on these are from machines running mame of some description.
                            There is no gradual or accumulative damage , they just work as normal and suddenly fail as with the chassis in this thread.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jomac View Post
                              The MS8 has a very tight frequency band in 15K mode , absolute min of 15.450khz and Max of 16.050Khz , optimal is 15.750Khz , it also has a tight vertical range between 54Hz and 60Hz.

                              When ever they are operated outside of this range there is push and pull amplifier ( part of the little Hybrid Sync Module )that attempts to clamp the frequencies within the safe range , so if it is being run and absolute min or max listed above the amplifier / clamping section is working at maximum , if you exceed these limits these chassis most of the time are able to cope when the chassis is in perfect working condition.
                              I have measure on a CRO watching all sorts of Mame setups that are supposed to be blocking everything outside of 15K but at startup before there is even anything displayed I have seen anywhere from 13K to 17K before they settle to somewhere in the 15K range.

                              By no means am I saying don't use these monitors , I am only stating that 99% of all the failures I see with the Sync section on these are from machines running mame of some description.
                              There is no gradual or accumulative damage , they just work as normal and suddenly fail as with the chassis in this thread.
                              Thanks for the reply, great to get some details on the MS8 (doesn't seem to be much around). I am guessing my below settings are wrong because you are saying a different vertical freq range. Do you have the manual available to confirm any of these other settings?

                              HfreqMin-HfreqMax, VfreqMin-VfreqMax, HFrontPorch, HSyncPulse, HBackPorch, VfrontPorch, VSyncPulse, VBackPorch, HSyncPol, VSyncPol, ProgressiveLinesMin, ProgressiveLinesMax, InterlacedLinesMin, InterlacedLinesMax

                              15450-16050, 50-65, 3.910, 4.700, 6.850, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576

                              I'm guessing the vertical range should be like this instead. Just not sure about the stuff in Bold
                              15450-16050, 54-60, 3.910, 4.700, 6.850, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 192, 288, 448, 576
                              Last edited by blontic; 22 August 2014, 02:05 PM.

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