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MGL 21 - Call for ideas ... [CLOSED]

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  • #16
    Originally posted by OOO View Post
    3. Games from the last 2 years are excluded from nomination. This was to prevent the same games coming up every 6 x MGLs and encourage new games to be played.

    5. Rat brought up the topic of whether players should be able to look at inp files, live streams and read up on strategies for the games. There is no current rule regarding this point and therefore it is currently allowed.

    6. Some players have expressed not to ask for hints in the first week.
    3. As a newbie a lot of good games are blocked by this rule... but I understand the reason behind it and can't complain.

    5. I reckon if you can study the game and then master it in the time the competition gives you.... good luck to you.

    6. Doesn't faze me.... am happy to share from day 1 if there is something I know..... but I don't know much.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Rat View Post
      ... if we go for "least" votes then we will get some real shockers ....
      Will we? Back in the days of random draws this didn't happen. We might get games that don't suit me or you or somebody, but it's tough to say they'll be shockers. I can only recall strongly divided opinions on Crush Roller and general dislike for Radar Scope. (It's just a misunderstood game )

      But I like your idea of mixing it up too.

      Comment


      • #18
        I'm sort of happy with the way it is, but I don't mind if we either go for 4 favorites and 4 random "least vote" games - might spice things up, might also supply some real crappy games... who knows

        As for the live stream/INP etc. issues - I'm all for live streaming, unfortunately it's only really Barra who streams the most, I do a little bit of it and occasionally you might see MameShane streaming too. Streaming is probably the closest any of us will get to recreating the arcade experience - you can watch a guy play live, you can listen as they curse at the game, and also ask questions about how they play - just like you did in the good old days. I know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but it really would be good if more players could stream their game play. Watching live streams (even from day 1) should be encouraged IMO, but only watching it as a live stream - no going back and re-watching/pausing to study the game play. INP's are a different kettle of fish, and we really should discourage people from using them IMO.

        Save States and pausing should be left as is - a no go zone, there is just too much potential for pausing to be abused IMO. One thing that has previously been allowed, and still is as far as I'm concerned, is the use of continues. If the game allowed continues in the arcade, then you use continues during the MGL - BUT only for learning/getting further into the game - every submitted score must be a single credit and the game must be played from the games beginning.

        Both of the above issues however come down to the fundamental rule of MGL - honesty. We can't stop pausing, we can't stop save stating, we can't stop people downloading INPs.

        On final point, we've had much debate over the years about DIP settings - with TG relaunching soon, do we revisit this? It's true the some times TG settings can completely ruin a game (Tutankham for example) but overall I think it's good to try and compete on the world stage, and if an AA'er can take down a TG record then I think we should encourage this.

        Oh, and happy 21st to the MGL

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        • #19
          I'm happy to go along with whatever is decided re voting and game selection. If I remember rightly it was suggested before about nominating games that hadn't been played before but it didn't happen. My 5 picks for that one were all unplayed.

          Streaming isn't an option for me right now even if I wanted to. I can just imagine the uproar if streaming happened when I started playing MGLs. I had people ripping me a new a***hole for perceived hints. All hell would be breaking loose. Times have changed though by the looks of it.

          Save states, pausing and continues? All I can say is go read the Space Chaser thread back in MGL 16. My lowest point in competitive gaming.

          Comment


          • #20
            What Rat said. 4 most voted and 4 random choice, alternating.
            I prefer contests that have some unknown games, it keeps things interesting. Also just because a game is unknown, doesnt mean it sucks. Look what happened with Jumping Jack.

            Ill fess up and admit I watch replays from time to time. I never use save states or pause or continues. This is why I submit on Retro Uprising. "Continue" should be added to the official list of swear words
            I also play a shit-load of the games in question and learn a lot myself. Just watch my stream.

            As for streaming, Ill always do it. Its not about the games, but the community part of it. People stop in and we have a yarn about everything but the game, its great. And to be honest, you wont learn a hell of a lot by watching me play anyway.
            If streaming is outlawed for this comp, I wont argue.

            My stream - http://www.twitch.tv/barranz - Pop in and say hello!

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            • #21
              Continues have always been a no no.


              TG Dips are a no for me. I play MGL for shits and giggles, if the MAME defaults are the same as TG then great, otherwise meh.

              Ill go along with

              Nominating 5 games secretly
              8 games to be played, each for a fortnight overlapping (as always)
              4 games most popular by nomination
              4 by random selection of the rest of the unsuccessful nominations. This good to help more obscure but still great games get up
              Alternate week for popular and random, Keep the most popular game for last.
              Leave all the tips, youtube links, streaming etc until week two. I like being frustrated trying to figure out a game (for a week anyway) and I like watching the live streams, so dont get rid of them

              Keep the mystery prize for participation. Why don't those who can throw something in the prize bag to help OOO along.
              "Beer, it does a belly good!"

              Wanted: Pacman Cab Next Project: Skinny MAME Cab for Samfoot, thread soon, no really. I might even do one on my Pole Position cab!

              Comment


              • #22
                Just to clarify my stance on Continues - the games are too be played exactly as they were in the arcade - some games had continues and others didn't - if a game has continues then IMO you should be able to use them to advance your game play - just as you could in the arcade. This is how it was explained to me when I first started playing MGL's. Continues however are not allowed on a submitted score, it must be a single coin played from the very beginning of the game.

                If we want to outlaw this, then I'm happy to go with the majority - if everyone says continues for practice isn't okay, then I'm fine with that. If we do go down this track, then I think we should also outlaw playing multiple games without resetting the game/ROM. It's a well known fact that certain games play differently after the first credit.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by John73 View Post
                  Just to clarify my stance on Continues - the games are too be played exactly as they were in the arcade - some games had continues and others didn't - if a game has continues then IMO you should be able to use them to advance your game play - just as you could in the arcade. This is how it was explained to me when I first started playing MGL's. Continues however are not allowed on a submitted score, it must be a single coin played from the very beginning of the game.

                  If we want to outlaw this, then I'm happy to go with the majority - if everyone says continues for practice isn't okay, then I'm fine with that. If we do go down this track, then I think we should also outlaw playing multiple games without resetting the game/ROM. It's a well known fact that certain games play differently after the first credit.
                  My 2 cents worth on continues. For the most part using them for practice shouldn't be an issue. We all could do it in the arcade back in the day. 90% of the time it shouldn't be an issue for submissions because most games reset your score to 0 if you continue.

                  Notable exceptions from memory:

                  Twin Cobra (score stays the same)
                  Aero Fighters (adds a 1 for each continue)

                  I know there's more but I'm off work and slightly pissed.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by John73 View Post
                    .... It's a well known fact that certain games play differently after the first credit.
                    John, any more details on this? Just for my interest. I recall asking a few MGLs ago why most people reset for each game - I tended to leave mine running to preserve HS tables. BITD was it common to switch machine off to get first coin game?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      News to me, we never turned games off to get first game BITD, I assume it only affects newer games and not 80's classics? but yes interesting and i would like to know more.

                      - - - Updated - - -

                      I prefer default dips because that is what all mine are set to and it means I don't need to check and change them, it's also what most cabs I played were set to BITD. If TG ever becomes worth visiting again I might play some games at TG settings sometimes, but I prefer default for the MGL, that said I would still play MGL if TG settings were decided it's not a big deal for me just a preference.

                      I agree with Foot about the "no clues first week" I enjoyed that when we stuck by it, but it seems we have moved on from that rule. Rules are fluid here with what the majority and the organizer(s) want, and it now seems that looking at YouTube and Marp will be allowed during competition. that kind of makes the no clues or tips first week irrelevant as I assume some people will be going straight to these resources as soon as a game is announced to see how to play before even firing the game up. If that's the way people want it then that's fine I will just get used to it, problem for me is there are certain games that I hope to one day complete "by myself" without watching videos, if others are smashing me in the MGL using videos and tips/guides then i will be tempted to try to keep up, but that is my personal dilemma
                      Winter is here and I'm still riding more than gaming, my current goal = 100,000 meters elevation gain for the year - well ahead so far

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                      • #26
                        My reason for not caring if people give clues from the start is because not doing it gives even more of an advantage to more seasoned players. They have an advantage through being more seasoned and then if we don't share bridging that gap becomes difficult. To me giving clues etc. is no different to standing with someone playing the game and helping them which seems to be acceptable, even to the point that some people get together to play and help each other. I think as a community, getting together is great but those who don't have the opportunity shouldn't miss out.
                        In most cases you need to spend time playing the games before the tips help anyway. Yes they improve your score, but you need to be able to do it and without practice, you generally can't.

                        Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Fire_Power View Post
                          John, any more details on this? Just for my interest. I recall asking a few MGLs ago why most people reset for each game - I tended to leave mine running to preserve HS tables. BITD was it common to switch machine off to get first coin game?
                          Most people reset because it's a quick way to start over after a bad start (Rage Quit)

                          The most recent game we played where this could have been an issue (albeit a minor one) was Wonderboy - the bonuses don't reset at the end of a game, meaning you can fix it so you get the highest bonus points at the start of a new game - this is impossible to do on the first credit when the game is turned on.

                          No it was not common BITD to switch a machine off, in fact, the arcade I went to would crack the shits big time if you messed with the power under the machine.

                          These multiple credit issues (some games will even play differently if you add 2 credits then begin) is why sites such as Twin Galaxies and Retro Uprising insist that all scores being submitted are a single credit only and the game must be hard reset (power cycled off and then on) prior to a score being accepted. It ensures a level playing field as much as is possible.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by John73 View Post
                            Most people reset because it's a quick way to start over after a bad start (Rage Quit)

                            The most recent game we played where this could have been an issue (albeit a minor one) was Wonderboy - the bonuses don't reset at the end of a game, meaning you can fix it so you get the highest bonus points at the start of a new game - this is impossible to do on the first credit when the game is turned on.

                            No it was not common BITD to switch a machine off, in fact, the arcade I went to would crack the shits big time if you messed with the power under the machine.

                            These multiple credit issues (some games will even play differently if you add 2 credits then begin) is why sites such as Twin Galaxies and Retro Uprising insist that all scores being submitted are a single credit only and the game must be hard reset (power cycled off and then on) prior to a score being accepted. It ensures a level playing field as much as is possible.
                            Bubble Bobble could've been manipulated big time by playing multiple games without a reset. Everything you do in that game adds to an invisible counter which eventually causes certain items to appear. These counters carry over from game to game. Set up something good, kill off the game and start a new game with that feature ready to be awarded on the first stage of a new game. Even the initials you enter can have an effect on the next game. And no I didn't exploit this. Would've needed to dig out an FAQ I printed out back before AA even existed to do some studying which as we all know is not the done thing in MGL.

                            We're not playing for bloody sheep stations.

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                            • #29
                              Thank you to everyone who provided feedback.
                              There are many interesting points of view on the topics.
                              However where a majority did not agree to a change, that change will not be implemented ...

                              MGL 21 will be a hidden favourites competition, scoring under the percentage system with 8 games over 9 weeks.
                              Looking at the requests for popular games and more new games to be played, it will be 4 games by most votes plus 4 games never played before in the MGL. PM nominations sent to me and games released one at a time. OK

                              Some wanted to stream and have fun during the two weeks of game play. For that arcade feel, building interest, sharing knowledge and building the community, no rule will be created to restrict or stop streaming. Quite the opposite, enjoy it.

                              Watching other people play is also learning and sharing tips. Many players at AA have played many of these games before and have experience and knowledge of many games. This includes watching inps on MARP/TG/RU previously, looked at Youtube games for interest, watched live streams around the world and read strategies of the games. This has helped them to improve and become a better player plus develop a deeper understanding and appreciation of the games. New players just taking up gaming or not as experienced should have the same opportunity. Learn as fast as you want, you choose. No rule will be created to restrict or stop learning as fast as you want and sharing tips.

                              A score submission must be a single game with no continues. This is a current rule and does not change.
                              Regarding always resetting the game each game play, this will be posted against the game only when it is needed. Bubble Bobble comes to mind where this is needed, but all other games you do not need to do this (and waste time for EVERY single game EVERY time for 9 weeks EVERY MGL. Plus cab players turning off and on the machine EVERY game EVERY time is not practical.)

                              Regarding do we play default dips or TG, not enough votes were received to change to TG settings. Please note the TG scoreboard is not up now and Champow and other scoreboards do not have all the TG settings posted. So in this MGL we may have found playing at default dips anyway.

                              I'll open the nominations thread today. This will have the rules and a place for you guys to discuss games.
                              Please read the nominations thread with the rules before you nominate.
                              (I will clear my mailbox so I can receive your PMs)

                              MGL21 starts in 5 days ...



                              Ask your friends to play in MGLXLII. Don't procrastinate, participate ...

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