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  • MGL 17 Leaderboard [Tournament Finished]

    MGL 17 Leaderboard - Final Results


    Rank
    Name MGL Points
    1 RMacauley 143
    2 DKong 103
    3 ED_209 101
    4 Mameshane 88
    5 kane 85
    6 Foot 83
    7 John73 82
    8 Brad 79
    9 nicko71 69
    10 Pelly 46
    11 MonoJoker 36
    12 Spartan 33
    13 azathoth 29
    14 OOO 25
    15 Rat 22
    16 Jammasized 14
    17 Skarn 11
    =18= blktgr74 7
    =18= Fire_Power 7
    20 pithhelmet 1
    21 casperthefriendly -
    Last edited by John73; 31st March 2013, 07:02 PM. Reason: Updated leaderboard. Tournament finished

  • #2
    Thanks John. I cannot help but laugh at the irony that I reckon a %age based scoring system is better and I am the first person to miss points on the GP scoring table system I'll see if I can keep the trend going!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Fire_Power View Post
      Thanks John. I cannot help but laugh at the irony that I reckon a %age based scoring system is better and I am the first person to miss points on the GP scoring table system I'll see if I can keep the trend going!
      There were a few people in the last MGL that ended up with no points for a game because we had more than 15 people compete. The % system really is a pain in the butt to keep updated, though definitely possible with a little work.

      Maybe when this MGL is over I'll convert the scores to the % system just so everyone can see what if any difference it would make. I did look at the two systems after the Puck Off! and from memory I don't think either system gave any different result, everyone would have still finished in the same position - maybe there were two players that would have swapped places but that is it.

      As has been pointed out, the problem with the % system comes up when one player is heads and shoulders above everyone else which could potentially mean one player gets 100 points for a game and the 2nd best and everyone lower gets less than 5 points for that game, which in an 8 game MGL makes it virtually impossible for anyone else to win the competition. I'm also told that the % system has been used a long(???) time ago in a MGL (far far away) and it really didn't make any difference to the final overall results.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by John73 View Post
        Maybe when this MGL is over I'll convert the scores to the % system just so everyone can see what if any difference it would make.
        I'll do this as we go along for the current MGL for interest. After the call for ideas discussion and suggestions I still thought the % system is better so for interest sake I ran the results of the last two MGL through the %age based scoring system. I did it on a spreadsheet which I'll happily send to anyone - pm mew if you want a copy.

        The summary results are below - the table show the GP score on the lhs and % score and rank on rhs. The delta col shows rank position movement from GP to %



        MGL 15
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        MGL16
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        These were some conclusions I draw;
        - the first four positions did not change at all. We know who the good players are anyway and that'll stay the same. You only need to look at the distribution of the medals to see this.
        - it changes the middle to bottom section of the final placings by rewarding participation. Say someone plays one game that they're good at then they pick up mid range GP points and that's the only game they play. If another participant plays more of the total number of games but at a lower standard they may be beaten by the one game wonder. Seems to me more participation is desirable, so the points accumulated by the regular player will benefit him
        - the GP system expands the top few positions because the gaps in points scored at the top are much bigger than the lower half
        (take the case of game 4 Fantasy Zone in MGL16 where the scores were almost identical, yet the GP system splits them by a big amount

        I don't know if this is good or bad. In motorcycle racing it encourages the last lap lunge to pick up a bigger point difference which is good for racing and spectating. In MGL it's not head to head real time in that sense but it might discourage people from the last minute effort to beat someone just in front because they'll get essentially the same score anyway - that's the only downside I can see to %age based scoring.


        As has been pointed out, the problem with the % system comes up when one player is heads and shoulders above everyone else which could potentially mean one player gets 100 points for a game and the 2nd best and everyone lower gets less than 5 points for that game, which in an 8 game MGL makes it virtually impossible for anyone else to win the competition.
        The arguement that one outstanding game will skew the tablle doesn't hold water - there a few ways to look at it

        #1 analysis of past MGL games
        Game 7 Space Chaser in MGL 16 where #1 was 48k and pos 2 was 29k Kane and RMc (Kane moved up one pos, was 7 in GP -> 6 %age)
        Game 5 Aliens in MGL 16 where #1 was 524k and pos 2 was 200k RMc and Casper (Casper moved down three pos 5 GP -> 8 %age)

        Game 4 Xain'dSleena in MGL15 where #1 was 3144k and pos 2 was 1271k Spartan and RMc No change between these two in either system
        Game 2 Snobros in MGL15 where #1 was 2504k and #2 was 1681k RMC and Ed_209 Ed moved up two pos 10 GP -> 8 % age)

        #2 say somebody has a cracked game and gets double the next score, (John I think your score difference of 20 times is too unrealistic - see above examples) so they'd get 100 points and a "bonus" of 50 over the rest of the field (because second place gets 50). Now the max point possible for the whole MGL are 8 games at 100 so 800 in total, so the "bonus" from this cracker of a game is 50/800 (6.25%). In GP with the same double score the single game score "bonus" is 5 point (difference beteween 1st and 2nd) and max possible points is 8 games at 25 so 200 and the cracker game bonus is now 5/200 (2.5% ) So not that much of an advantage for a one off cracker game. If someone has two games where they double the next best maybe they're a good player?


        Finally (sorry for the long diatribe - had a boring day at work so thought I'd try some better analysis to back my gut feeling that % is better), a few other advantages. It splits ties better, because relative performance in each game is reflected in the points awarded rather than being rounded off and then summed up. eg say two players battling for minor positions and they both finish 7th and 8th in two separate games but with position reversed. In GP scoring they get 17 points (9 + 8) and a tie. If points are awarded on % basis the relative performance compared to the winner in each game will separate them fairly, so it's unlikely to get minor placings ties.

        And the big one to me is it gives a better representative show on effort. In GP a player gets nothing if (s)he finishes lower than 15th whereas they may have achieved half the score of the gun players, so at least they get some points based on what they've played and submitted rather than nothing because the field is big.

        Most people seem to say more participation is better and the % based scoring system encourages this whilst still letting the best players win - I can't see any valid reason for not using it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Nice analysis Rat and I agree. I reckon the % based system is superior especially as it rewards participation. However John is correct in that maintaining it is a little more cumbersome.

          Brad
          My Projects - Space Invaders Bartop, Williams A-Go-Go, Galaxian Bartop, Jukebox Kiosk 1&2, Jukebox Kiosk 3, Virtual Minipin, Generic Upright, MultiCab, Rampage,

          Comment


          • #6
            I've been called Rat - but that's ok, he makes well reasoned posts and rides a bicycle so is ok in my view

            On the difficulty or effort in scoring I automated a fair bit of it in my spreadsheet to get rid of the grunt work, it was pretty much just cut and paste the final existing table position and look at the outcome. Have a look at the table lookup functions in excel for ideas if interested. Vlookup maching on names was what I used.

            Comment


            • #7
              LOL sorry. I think I'd just read a post of his =(

              Agreed on the automation part. Excel would automate ALL of the calculations. The issue is cropping and embedding the file. I think instead you should use the spreadsheet to calc and then input the data into an existing table on the forum. I mean you have to pretty much do that anyway.

              Brad
              My Projects - Space Invaders Bartop, Williams A-Go-Go, Galaxian Bartop, Jukebox Kiosk 1&2, Jukebox Kiosk 3, Virtual Minipin, Generic Upright, MultiCab, Rampage,

              Comment


              • #8
                If the % system is something we want to try in a future MGL, I will most likely whip up a quick program in VB which will allow me to just enter scores - it will then sort the scores (which is way easier than the current method), calculate the % points and then spit out HTML code which can be cut & pasted straight into the forum.

                I may even write this program just for "fun" (yes, I'm a very boring person) and I'll see if I can upload it here somehow so that any future MGL mods can easily use it.

                It may even be an idea to write it to just do the current GP scoring system.

                Haven't read all of your post yet Fire_Power, but I will have a read tomorrow

                Comment


                • #9
                  Update for game 3 in the winds [MENTION=8526]John73[/MENTION]
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DKong View Post
                    Update for game 3 in the winds [MENTION=8526]John73[/MENTION]
                    I totally forgot about doing this - I'll get to it today.... Sorry

                    - - - Updated - - -

                    Leaderboard and medals updated.

                    Big movers in Game #3 were Brad from 7th to 2nd) and myself (from 2nd to 6th)

                    Looking like the closest MGL in the last 12mths so far, 3 games and 3 different winners.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Leaderboard updated. Rob has cleared out in first place but a close fight is on for 2nd and 3rd.

                      Four games down, four to go.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Scoreboard updated!

                        5 games down and 5 different winners. Rob still way out in front - consistency on all games will do it every time

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          6 games down and yet another different winner - congrats to OOO for winning Star Force (game 6). I'll try and jinx kane by saying that he will win game 7 and that will be 7 different winners from 7 games Of course game 8 is one nominated by Rob, so there is a good chance he'll take that one out and wreck the possibility of having 8 different winners

                          Rob looks to have yet another MGL in the bag (subject to passing the usual stringent MGL urine tests)

                          Massive fight on for 2nd place.

                          Two weeks of MGL 17 remaining to get yourself bragging rights (and a nice "virtual trophy" for your signature)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Leaderboard updated!

                            7 Games down, 1 remaining. Rob has this all wrapped up, well all wrapped up a few weeks ago.

                            The fight is on for the 2nd and 3rd place however, any one of about 6 players can still take it out with a good result in Fly Boy.

                            6 Days left for MGL 17, good luck.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by John73 View Post
                              Leaderboard updated!

                              7 Games down, 1 remaining. Rob has this all wrapped up, well all wrapped up a few weeks ago.

                              The fight is on for the 2nd and 3rd place however, any one of about 6 players can still take it out with a good result in Fly Boy.

                              6 Days left for MGL 17, good luck.
                              Checks fingers. None broken yet.
                              Races to the wardrobe (if I had one) and puts on flame retardant suit and grabs a cricket bat just in case.

                              I know that there's still a few days to go but it looks like we've just had a controversy free MGL unless I've forgotten something.

                              Comment

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