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The Future of the MGL


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Is it time for a discussion on the future of the MGL?

 

The MGL has grown in recent times, both in number of players and in regard to recognition in the global gaming community.

Paul ( @OOO ) has put in significant effort to the organising and promoting of the MGL and has been successful in doing so.

 

When I began playing in the MGL I found the beauty of it was in its simplicity. Play your game, take a screenshot, post your score. The banter between players was excellent and it was a fun challenge to try and top each other's scores. The honesty system worked fine and with no prizes to speak of other than bragging rights there was no reason to be dishonest as you had nothing to gain.

 

Before I go any further I would like to stress that I absolutely am not accusing or suggesting that anyone has entered scores dishonestly.

 

As most would be aware, the first post in each new game shows the dip settings that each game is to be played on for the tournament. It seems that in recent times many of these dip settings have been changed from the 'standard' settings to settings that match those of Twin Galaxies. This is an effort by Paul to allow players, if they wish, to compete and aim for world records that will be accepted by Twin Galaxies. Many of these settings are harder than the standard settings and require the dip settings to be changed before play. Here is where potential problems arise.

 

A recent game in MGL 35 was Track 'n' Field. This game has a significant difference to most other games we play in that it has an 'ending'. The dips listed by Paul in the first post included a setting to end the game after one run through the events.

A number of players submitted scores that simply weren't possible given the limitation of the dip setting (each of those players later withdrew those scores and said it was unintentional). They had simply played through more events until their game ended which resulted in very high scores. These players were not being dishonest but had simply failed to read the instructions in post one of the game.

 

The problem is almost everything else we play does not have a limitation like this that makes errors easy to spot. A player could play a game on easier settings or have extra lives more frequently by having the wrong dip settings (intentionally or not) and no one would be able to tell with only a screenshot as evidence.

 

There has been discussion on other forums about the past and future integrity of the MGL scoreboard and the impact that this may have had/will have on tournaments. There have been suggestions of only using standard dip settings or inp files or video recordings being required to ensure the integrity of the scoreboard.

 

I do not know the solution or even if others think a solution is required.

 

I do know that a few recent tournaments have been decided by only a few points and that one was a tie for first. As Paul has told us repeatedly, "every point counts". Now that this is being promoted as the 'World Championship of eSports' and that cash prize money is being offered I think it is time to ensure our scoreboard is 100% accurate.

 

What are other players thoughts?

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Agreed. Cash prizes and only screenshot proof is just asking for trouble. If we did require INPs though, who's going to look through them all? It would get tiresome for everybody very quickly I think.
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If inps are ever required then I'm out as that becomes a PITA on my cabs which don't have Internet access.

 

I love the enthusiasm and organisation that Paul brings to the MGL.

 

BUT as I have stated many times I would prefer it was kept an AA comp. If TG people want to join AA and play default settings then they are welcome. But having scores and banter for each game spread across different forums is not good IMO.

 

I agree that having cash and big prizes is a worry.

When we played just for virtual medals that was incentive enough.

I have a couple of small trophies from the old days of MGL and they are great.

 

I did win some cash in a random draw for playing all the games and I am very greatful for that.

But I come for the games and discussion :)

 

Sent from my SM-G920I using Aussie Arcade mobile app

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I would be in favor of INPs being required. I already record and save the INP for my high scores anyway, but like kane said, with the amount of submissions coming in, it would be difficult to review them in a timely manner and would put a burden on the adjudicator.

 

I do agree that there are some concerns.

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I would be in favor of INPs being required. I already record and save the INP for my high scores anyway, but like kane said, with the amount of submissions coming in, it would be difficult to review them in a timely manner and would put a burden on the adjudicator.

 

Another 2 cents

 

If INPs where used you wouldn't need to watch them all just the top score and only if there is something that might bring the score in to question, and if you cant provide one if asked then score removed

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Another 2 cents

 

If INPs where used you wouldn't need to watch them all just the top score and only if there is something that might bring the score in to question, and if you cant provide one if asked then score removed

U could open it check dips then fast forward to the end to check continues werent used and it plays back to the score submitted. Dont have to sit through and watch the entire playback at normal speed etc

 

 

could just be top 10 for a given game have to submit an inp.

 

Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk

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I'm not a fan of having to post .inp's It sort of feels like it goes against the spirit of what the MGL is supposed to be about

 

Turns something that was just for shits and giggles with your mates into something else.

 

It will also put an end to people competing with multi game boards or playing at an arcade, see below from OOO 1st post in each game

 

"Games can be played at the arcade. "

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I'm not a fan of having to post .inp's It sort of feels like it goes against the spirit of what the MGL is supposed to be about

 

Turns something that was just for shits and giggles with your mates into something else.

 

 

Thanks for your comment Foot.

I agree with your post, the MGL is a place for good times.

 

However it is becoming something different to what it was. It is being promoted as a world championship and is attracting work class players. It is offering cash prize money.

 

I would truly love for the honesty system to work but the MGL is open to players globally and not all of them are honest. Combine that fact with unintentional mistakes and you have a questionable scoreboard.

 

I fully support @OOO and the way he runs the MGL tournaments. I think his organisation and presentation of each game and results is excellent. I have thanked him privately in the past and am happy to do so here publicly as well.

 

As I said in my first post, I don't know the answer, but at the moment we are sitting somewhere in between a fun league and a pro league.

 

Any serious competition needs to have a level playing field.

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Exactly Foot, the MGL has always been just for fun, not world records and there was no reason to question screen shots.

This is why I enjoy it much more than TG and even MARP.

There are plenty of places to post scores to get verified records already for people who want that.

I hope what is different and great about the MGL is not lost.

If people start wanting inps now then what's next? Wolfmame?

Independent verification?

I used to post at MARP but when I got my Astro cabs and set them up running the awesome Groovymame that excluded me from submitting.

I don't want to go back to inps and wolfmame and grinding away for hours trying to get world records. I just want some MGL fun.

 

I vote the next MGL theme is bring back the old ways. We are retro gamers FFS of course we dislike change :D

 

Sent from my SM-G920I using Aussie Arcade mobile app

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Interesting thread BRB. I haven't been involved enough in many MGL's in recent times but i started playing in MGL's around the same time as @Rat, MGL #8 , about 9 years ago... I think Foot has been around even longer. We sometimes had only 5 people submitting scores in those days :) But it was still fun. And the basic rules still apply, submit a screen shot with your score. Personally i'd hate to see that change.

 

Retro gaming in general has come on a long way in the last 10 years, we're seeing a lot more people involved in it now than ever. So too the level of competition and competitiveness has increased enormously. Paul has been amazing for the MGL, under his guidance it has grown into one of the biggest comps in the world. Biggest maybe ? almost 50 players now submitting scores! Has there ever been a world championship before ? I think that's pretty incredible.

 

I would agree that dips should be mame defaults not TG standards. Getting back to that 'fun' thing :)

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Don’t get me wrong, I am really pleased, almost proud you could say of how our little MGL has grown.

 

OOO does a great job of promoting the gaming and although I understand the concerns of some who dont like the spread of the MGL to TG I think it’s working well. I have seen more people joining and posting here, getting involved (personally I dont like the TG forum software, blah, no Tapatalk, so if I had a choice AA for me)

 

The MGL has to evolve, I love seeing the skills of the great players, maybe those who want to play for sheep stations can post inp’s on wolfmame, and the rest can take a screen shot of their PC, Cab, machine at the arcade.

However only those who use the inp will be in the running for the cash prizes, the rest of use can play for the glory of setting a PB or beating a mate

 

Just saying...

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Aussie Arcade

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OOO does such an amazing job with the MGL it was really only a matter of time before it grew to what it is now.

 

However, I do feel it is trying to be too "competitive" or hardcore, whilst still maintaining the very principles that the MGL stands for. I'm really not sure if its possible to please parties at both ends of the spectrum.

 

As most of you know I'm in the hardcore camp and so would definitely prefer INPs, especially in something dubbed the "World Championship of eSports". In reality I know a lot of you guys can't/won't record because you don't have the proper setup and/or feel its unnecessary. I completely understand.

 

Really not sure where I'm going with this, but maybe it needs to be one or the other? Maybe people can just play on whatever settings they like? After all it is OOO's money and if he's happy to hand it out to someone just posting screenshots, maybe we should just be happy we have a competition this great?

 

I wouldn't be opposed to being able to use default AND TG settings (provided TG's are harder, which 99.9% are). I can't think of the downside here. The hardcore can play and submit to TG, the casual MGL guys can play whatever their cab is set to without having to record. Win/Win? Maybe we would place lower on the scoreboards due to settings? But if we're part of the hardcore, maybe we should just suck it up, its all fun after all.

 

Anyway those are my half drunken ramblings. Thoughts?

 

:)

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I agree @Barra...OOO does an amazing job and I feel that he doesn't get enough credit for the time he takes to get this comp up and running each season.

 

I think that the .inp is a great way to sort out the cheats...but I agree it would be time consuming for every post that comes through...so this is my idea on a solution.

 

 

Keep everything the way it is now through out the four seasons

 

When the final scores are tallied up the top 10 play off...THIS IS WHERE .INP's MUST BE USED...ONLY IN THE FINAL

 

Only 5 get paid out

 

It would be a quick fire round consisting of only 5 games in 5 days for example (this is just a quick idea)

 

The final scores are worked out and prize money is handed out to the top five.

 

 

The benefit here is that if you decided to cheat through out the entire series ...it wont mean a thing cause you will be found out in the final play off and wont end up with any cash.

 

This I think this will ensure only the best players (who dont cheat) end up winning cash rightfully without any doubt in other players minds.

 

Its just an idea but I think it can solve the issue of cheating while still keeping the average players (like me) happy in competing against some of the best in the world.

 

Your thoughts?

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its all fun after all.

 

:)

 

I agree with nearly everything you said Barra, apart from the quoted bit.......because TG settings are NOT fun, they are not designed to be fun they are hardcore and they suck the fun right out of it for more casual gamers, which is the vast majority of the original MGL players. For many of us most of the fun of MGL was it was small and local, like having a comp at your local arcade, you actually had a chance of winning sometimes, now every game seems to be attracting some of the worlds best players of that game which is not the original vibe.

 

I think this new World Champ comp is great, good on Paul, but it's not the MGL at all and part of me wishes he had of used a different name for it, they are two totally different things and I don't think they mix. Anyway it's probably too late to go back now so I will see what happens of the $pic-inp debate.

 

 

I'm just gunna post default dip pics from now on as I'm here just for fun, I hope that doesn't upset anyone, it will be declared so I can be excluded from leaderboards and prizes :) some games the dips don't matter so I will still have a crack at some of them.

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I wouldn't be opposed to being able to use default AND TG settings (provided TG's are harder, which 99.9% are). I can't think of the downside here. The hardcore can play and submit to TG, the casual MGL guys can play whatever their cab is set to without having to record. Win/Win? Maybe we would place lower on the scoreboards due to settings? But if we're part of the hardcore, maybe we should just suck it up, its all fun after all.

 

:)

 

That is a really interesting idea, a sort of handicap system for the elite Arcade gamers of using TG dips, and playing against casual gamers on standard dips. It's very likely you guys would still win, but it might provide a closer playing field for us casuals, and provide a situation where the casuals don't feel like they are a little athletics kid going up against Usain Bolt ;)

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I agree with any idea that includes default dips.

Sometimes the MGL inspires me to beat PBs on my cab which is great, but my PBs are all default I have no desire to play 5 ships hard galaga.

Track and Field one run through is an ok idea for a comp though and I don't think Commando was any different but Wonder Boy sucked on hard compared to default.

BITD if you went to an arcade that had all the games set at TG settings you would not return.

 

Sent from my SM-G920I using Aussie Arcade mobile app

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KISS

Keep MGL's informal & fun and orientated around Personal Bests (PB's).

The points system should match the informal nature of score keeping.

"2 points per game system" would enable novices & experts to compete.

* 1 point awarded to the player with the highest score.

* 1 point awarded to players that beat their personal best.

Prizes would be low cost mystery gifts (Including participant donations), No cash.

 

Input files are Mame version dependent and not even usable on every game - Video recording is really the best option if a "MGL Pro" comp is to be had.

A "Pro" comp can have all the bells & whistles for handicaps & validated scores and all the things that make it harder for a casual gamer to participate.

Prizes are anything goes provided score validation is secure.

Edited by ozfalcon
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The dip settings don’t worry me either way as long as everyone is playing the same.

 

Sometimes a quick games a good game. Take Galaga, if it were on defaults it takes up so much time

 

Tutankhamun on hard is brutal but it’s s challenge

 

Tomato, tomato

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Arcade

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Just some ideas for MGL Pro

MGL Pro qualification requirements

1. Locked Mame Version and ROM file.

eg. Current (0.196) WolfMame with links to Windows, Mac & Linux binaries.

Must be run in throttle mode to avoid frame rate/game speed discrepancy.

 

2. Score / Game play verification.

Scores submitted by image with video file available on-line for verification.

Video to be captured with Open Broadcaster Software (Windows, Mac & Linux)

For consistent video evidence across all platforms (Locked video recording specifications):

464x372@60hz, Bilinear Filter

x264 CBR @ 2500, Veryfast CPU Preset.

Stereo Audio, Sample Rate 44.1khz @ 160Kb/Sec

ts (Transport Stream) video container.

Edited by ozfalcon
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Dips are a bit subjective,

I'd hate to play Commando on "Difficult" - It's hard enough on Normal.

Though I don't find Wonder Boy all that much more difficult on Hard compared to Easy.

 

I'd prefer everyone play with the provided dips so we are all playing the same thing.

 

Dips should be subjectively chosen (eg. Harder to avoid marathon games or easier

for games that are just coin eaters). I don't think MGL should follow TG's dips but if

they match or there is minimal impact on using TG's dips then thats fine too.

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its easy enough to create a track on tg with different dip settings. so if the dips are hard and not fun. its possible to create a new track and if 50 people are playing the game and even half those people submit an inp to tg. the new track would have more scores then a lot of games on there anyway.

 

Sent from my HTC 2PS6200 using Tapatalk

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Maybe just let OOO run these World Comps like he is as that is obviously what he wants to do, but in between world comps it would be nice to have an AA MGL Home comp, where we play default with just pics, only promoted on AA with scores only promoted on AA. Old school comp back to roots MGL with prizes of a virtual medal :) To me that would be the best of both worlds :D
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