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  • TV RGB conversions

    I saw this the other day:
    http://www.porkrind.org/arcade/tv-hack.html

    And wanted to know if anyone local has done the same thing. Assuming that the TV you buy comes with decent schematics, it shouldn't be terribly difficult to do the same. And attaining a $130 brand new 21" TV and converting it to a true 15KHz RGB monitor sounds damned fine to me.

    Comments? Suggestions? Flames?
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  • #2
    No bites so far it seems...

    Looks like I've got me a project for the summer break. If it works and I don't destroy anything, I'll be sure to document it.
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    • #3
      The trouble with this stuff is that there is alot of mis-information about it. When speaking to some ppl, they say all sorts of bad stuff about doing this conversion.

      The thing that i hear most often is that home tv's are not meant to be arcade monitors becuase of the thin layer of phosphor that normal tvs have compared to the more "hardy" arcade tubes.

      -My reaction to this is that most tv's that are being convertered are not going to be used on site, so they really dont need that heavy duty reliability.

      -My additional reaction to this is maybe ppl are saying this so everyone has to buy their more expensive arcade monitors.... cough cough.

      The other thing that i have been told is that ppl blow the horizontal drived doing this, especially when the screen is "tipped" in a certain directio.

      -Now this sounds like bull shit to me. I have seen many tv's installed in studio's where they have been mounted on an angle and they still work fine.

      If this does succeed elvis then i would love to see your documentation of the process.

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      • #4
        I have to agree with you: most of the people who try to disuade me from this sort of project are people who sell monitors. Asides from the usual precautions of working with CRTs, there doesn't seem to be any reason why this won't work.

        Inside all TVs the signal must be converted from whatever input to RGB at some stage. Why TVs don't have native RGB input on them, I'll never understand. All this effort to transcode to YPrPb or Y/C and back again seems like a waste when SCART has been around for so long, and is a bloody simple and totally usable idea. (And claiming it adds too much cost is rediculous - we're talking mere cents here, at time of manufacture!)

        Anyways... enough rambling. The only problems I can forsee are either not having enough documentation of the television to know where to plug into without guessing, and that the unit will only accept NTSC or PAL resolutions, and not have the controls to properly centre/sync other modes.

        Outside of that, there shouldn't be any dramas with "phosphor thinness" or any such nonsense, when playing video games from a console on a TV is no different in terms of what the screen is doing for long periods of time. And as you say, this is for home use only. I have no commercial interest in this at all. I just don't want to shell out the amount of money people seem to demand for new or near-new arcade monitors just for casual home use.
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        • #5
          I can answer why TVs dont use RGB...

          The first TVs were black and white. They worked off 2 signals: Lumanance and Audio. Now, this experimental TV was being developed simultaneously by 2 different companies. Both were intending to do color. But in a race to get their "standard" into the market, one released their product.

          Then color was invented working off 4 signals rgb and audio. Problem was, back then TVs were a major purchase like a car and no one who just spent a small fortune was gonna toss it out and buy a color TV. There had to be compatibility. So the lumanace (B&W) signal stayed and a chromanence (Color) signal was added, meaning B&W TVs could work with the same signal as color TVs. This was NTSC.

          As a side note: PAL (Phase Alternating Line) was invented to improve on NTSC. By reducing the frame rate, higher resolution was added, and by alternating the color signal on each scanline, interferance in the signal is reduced.
          ...maybe, but then again "maybe" covers a lot of things, like: maybe Michael Jackson really is LaToya in drag, or maybe if Dorothy clicks her heels 3 times and says "There's no place like home" while she is at home, she would telefrag herself..." - MadMikeAU

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          • #6
            Lets not forget the NTSC motto - Never Twice the Same Colour!....

            Anyway, Elvis, i know that most modern tv's will have a "service mode" which can be accessed by inputing a combo of buttons into the controller. This will give you every option you need, you just need to find out the code for that particular tv.

            Try this one...

            ▼► HP

            or this one

            ▼◄ HK

            These will only work if your tv is made by Akuma, Ryu or Ken.. or possibly some modern chun-li tv's

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            • #7
              Does my TV scream "hadouken" when I enter the service mode? And if I do the combination twice with all three punches, do I get a super combo secret menu with selectable secret end bosses?


              Thanks MadMikeAU for the history lesson. I see that once again sensible engineering has taken the back step to legacy. Typical.
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Berty
                Lets not forget the NTSC motto - Never Twice the Same Colour!....

                Anyway, Elvis, i know that most modern tv's will have a "service mode" which can be accessed by inputing a combo of buttons into the controller. This will give you every option you need, you just need to find out the code for that particular tv.

                Try this one...

                ▼► HP

                or this one

                ▼◄ HK

                These will only work if your tv is made by Akuma, Ryu or Ken.. or possibly some modern chun-li tv's
                and if that doesnt work, run over them witha Honda
                ...maybe, but then again "maybe" covers a lot of things, like: maybe Michael Jackson really is LaToya in drag, or maybe if Dorothy clicks her heels 3 times and says "There's no place like home" while she is at home, she would telefrag herself..." - MadMikeAU

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                • #9
                  Modern tv's can take an rgb signal.


                  You can feed the rgb through a simple circuit into the neckboard.

                  The hard bit is finding the sync on the tv to hook into.

                  Of cause, don't forget scart tv's. They have an rgb input

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by The Prof
                    Of cause, don't forget scart tv's. They have an rgb input
                    If SCART TVs were cheap and readily available in this country, I wouldn't be trying this.

                    Currently a SCART-capable TV will set me back more than an arcade monitor. In that case, I'd rather the real deal. I'm looking for the holy grail here. A device that is

                    1) Cheap for it's size (21" for $130 anyone?)

                    2) Easy to hack

                    3) Gives a quality end result that is near enough to proper RGB monitor quality (I'm not looking for perfection, just half decent will do me)

                    And like the holy grail, I am fully aware that there's a good chance I'll never find it. But I've got to at least try.
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                    • #11
                      As an alternative...
                      http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView...=&SUBCATID=292

                      or kit K4600 @ http://www.velleman.be/

                      these will convert an RGB signal into a componant signal.
                      ...maybe, but then again "maybe" covers a lot of things, like: maybe Michael Jackson really is LaToya in drag, or maybe if Dorothy clicks her heels 3 times and says "There's no place like home" while she is at home, she would telefrag herself..." - MadMikeAU

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MadMikeAU
                        As an alternative...
                        http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView...=&SUBCATID=292

                        or kit K4600 @ http://www.velleman.be/

                        these will convert an RGB signal into a componant signal.
                        The Jaycar unit is $90 RRP. That starts pushing the cost of a cheap TV closer to the cost of a second-hand RGB monitor.

                        I'm going for the ultra-budget approach here. Call me Captain Tightarse!
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                        • #13
                          Ahoy Captain Tightarse!
                          For an ultra cheap solution (but probably not the sort of quality you're looking for) how's this?

                          There's also various pre-built options at http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/ but they're not cheap...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Adeptus
                            Ahoy Captain Tightarse!
                            For an ultra cheap solution (but probably not the sort of quality you're looking for) how's this?
                            Ahoy fellow overclocker! Well it meets the budget requirements, but means I'm stuck at 50Hz. Plus it isn't nearly as fun and dangerous as playing inside TVs.

                            Originally posted by Adeptus
                            There's also various pre-built options at http://www.highway.net.au/parts/converters/ but they're not cheap...
                            Just quietly, I find Highway rediculously expensive (to the point of "yeah right, like it's worth even half that" in most instances).

                            Half my desire for this project is to get beautiful RGB quality cheaply. Most of the RGB->SVideo converters I've played with wreck the image quality somehow. While cheap is the major focus, equivalent quality needs to be maintained too.

                            It definitely looks like I'm hitting the cheapy stores to go TV shopping this holidays. The last 2 cheap TVs I bought came with circuit diagrams, which is promising.
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                            • #15
                              Would a PS2 component video cable do the trick? Does PS2 output component natively or only RGB?

                              Comment

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