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Brad
10th December 2017, 09:19 AM
I thought I better put a placeholder in for my restore and for feedback, suggestions and help: https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/91459-My-first-and-new-pinball-in-da-house

This is an interesting machine:

One of only three 4-player Williams games to have the 2nd player located in the lower left corner of the backglass and the 3rd player in the upper right.

Design by: Norm Clark
Art by: Jerry Kelley
Notes: 'A-Go-Go' was the first machine to use a captive ball spinner, invented by Norm Clark.

During the production run, the coin door was changed from the large single-slot to a smaller multiple slot and the drop-down cabinet was eliminated. We do not know how many games were produced in each cabinet style. Reportedly, the January 1967 issue of the German trade magazine MŁnzautomat stated that the standard cabinet games were Later Production games and were manufactured due to a high demand in Germany.

I have the earlier version with the single coin slot and the drop down cabinet.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/side_01.jpg

To put it bluntly, the paintwork is completely rat shit. But the timber itself is in fantastic condition so a repaint is on the way. I'll trace the existing and mask/paint which I'm not too bad at. See my minipin as an example: https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/42304-Minipin?highlight=minipin

My big question is how do I match the colours when they're so faded?

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171210_080528.jpg

Of course there is no key for the 2 locks on it so I cannot currently open it up.

I'm assuming I'll have to drill these out then replace?
Can you get original replacements for them?

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171210_080540.jpg

Backglass is also very faded and in the centre a fair bit has come away. I'll have to replace this at some stage.

Can I treat with anything to stop it degrading anymore in the meantime?

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171210_080513.jpg

Playfield, is to my untrained eye surprisingly good although one of the roll-overs? looks like it's lifted. Again not surprising for a 52 year old game thats been sitting idle for many years. I can take a closer look once I can get the glass off. The glass is filthy.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171210_080422.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171210_080441.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171210_080444.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171210_080451.jpg

Unfortunately some clown cut the harness to the back-box, easily repaired but I'm not going near any of the electrics until way further down the restore path.

I've already sourced schematics for it so that's a start.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171210_080429.jpg

Coin door is rusty in places. Do I replace or restore. I'd prefer to restore if feasible. Legs are in shocking condition, so I think they'll need to be replaced =(

There's also a ball in the bottom shute

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171210_080352.jpg

Cheers,

Brad

vintage
10th December 2017, 09:27 AM
You can mylar the backglass and or krylon triple thick first


http://shop.mrpinball.com.au/product/krylon-triple-thick-glaze-clear-coat/

Brk_oth
10th December 2017, 09:34 AM
Triple thick the backglass.


Coin door is rusty in places. Do I replace or restore. I'd prefer to restore if feasible. Legs are in shocking condition, so I think they'll need to be replaced =(
There's also a ball in the bottom shute

The coin door on these are extra large, much larger than your normal coin door, as they were made for the large coin mechs which could sort 3 different coins.... I think you may have to try to restore it as finding a replacement would be like finding hens teeth.

Good luck with it, you have a big job ahead of you with all that cosmetic work.

millsy56
10th December 2017, 09:51 AM
Blues used in my past Williams repaint may help.
http://pinballaustralia.com/missorestocabH.htm
http://pinballaustralia.com/paintmisso.htm
Maybe hammertone the coin door
http://pinballaustralia.com/bazrestoaproncoinH.htm
All lock barrels can be bought from Bunnings (cabinet hardware aisle)

bingoman
10th December 2017, 09:53 AM
Looks like you got it from the tip :lol Sorry couldn't help myself.Good luck with the resto.:)

Brad
10th December 2017, 09:56 AM
Looks like you got it from the tip :lol Sorry couldn't help myself.Good luck with the resto.:)


I'm honestly under no illusions about the state of it ;)

Thanks for the tips guys, will be a lot of questions following on LOL

Brad

wiredoug
10th December 2017, 10:03 AM
Drop down cabs need special legs. Did you get them? The front just 25 inch or so

Brad
10th December 2017, 10:13 AM
Drop down cabs need special legs. Did you get them? The front just 25 inch or so


Yeah they came with them but holy hell they're in bad shape

The outside are almost all surface rust

28" rear and 25" front

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171210_100453.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171210_100503.jpg

wiredoug
10th December 2017, 10:17 AM
awesome theres a 200 set of legs there.. ( unobtanium) ... time to buy some vinegar :)

ajfclark
10th December 2017, 10:28 AM
Yeah they came with them but holy hell they're in bad shape

They look better than the ones I have on Sky Jump. The worst started like this:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3B1oYKDyrpKtZg8XaFRCVjRabyvf6reGK4XPipC7LJuJZuGDiG 25rumoMWggwId4mh-nWmUkuB2Gop9b6lUVlAkgpZxuAKr76p2Qvgemwx6WIofuxZPma iEEwmmmamGZqXalQfERLFY8b1f28oaU5zinS21q21hUvmNb6EX GCNXBDvmBNALWzci8ecfcRhlu1p6tws1fr_uSqDuJlSpVFFDQC qNfaM8KwsQITDeyArnwuh4tQAhnlNp0eNxtX3fAaM3VA4jinKM gma2GpAwko1ZDrQui8m6FgYe_sRFeQdO4YvNFTAkoFOHVpQmiC YEad6UknsgGouoTXek7AN9qBzXiBqWyxy-7WKjAPRUfyS1_k7O9Wpf40ruL85yUq3XIrNyv0h2H9xYC5lPo0 RLLH7Gfyvep5y6FiTiMOVWOZdqf2Azhg-216yuNRd9diiI8w-Z5nadU4trHdZ6XkDxF6C5oi-5n4YTq75r-a0tECKx1_kYO-4bbU9ey9iw6GdjgrZqJoUt6Paw7qOdu0W8j-FiYEIUEo6f0eldyjTKjF3DFWVMoGIIpqu-l6zzmg33ZqX40s7IylfOUOQvFiOO_-NkcEdcHp3lracqbS6cydWwC7I14HtWlNwioajTUgPcbRCeTDwg 7jemeLQwSELe9xgHak29pIK5jL51b=w1757-h988-no

I tried all different things but the best result for least effort was evaporust:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/bXG16eWPYPPeiL3g1BhmtT7Y40dIcwSAg2INDxPzEBxSb3txSm ApZAV3x-DZkmg-oXmk95S8PLagmMCc8FM_oBYCNnqfKBifQbVsYp_sApF01RZjuq V3BA00ES7U3PUpwO4wngPkfM7CZxpM4cI6ozk9f4xBWJXv9-AtzT1bAbvkWdgDMUhf8DlkMbtC1XnlT4STgfVKs5jzsMhl55ud qaRMaGsUP2sVXYAESjVkXQli_pqaWgIfWY-PG4OSbzSL0OatKI-WiVfVhKClaGLRQ6CKYwNFWGZr0MBpoB6ZQxXGesGwRriEg5trF 5VbrtAH8s-hY2h5jmsO_qzqHx_GLx3I5kjZ4I7hCZI21HzZ_QqrL7rmP1th5 fstZBI9J5q97wY7SHPrmu5jbX7F_uKj99dGciqFhqQ03sGDT5W 1PSBlXOMVhKx9yWmthBV4hqYSdcCf6G_5JWRwOpx9Po3MSKchp _Vx3LLZXH-iGKJ-wGPXh61qWD86EKYOYgVTY6FdpxS7Cc-SVRRaKnRCcuE-nAC_BDlvTWWRtRGwjrpBsd0lqWWJzWCcbLE0fghLyocCOxiOLk ReYgWrarnA2h527f8aYOur8EBCnzGCgYAzaDwgQ0aU-Iu9vbQF5hyW0MJtTSvfMAMDOj_9mS26Z_emW2YusceBMp7DvGK 3=w1757-h988-no

Make a tube out of 90mm pvc that's slightly longer than the longest legs you'll ever do. Glue a fixed end cap on one end and a screw end cap on the other.

Remove the levellers and pop in 2 legs and something less than 5L of evaporust. Leave overnight. Check. Depending on temperature and the amount of rust, might take a couple of days. Possibly need to retap the threads.

I'd give the coin door a go in evaporust too.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/8zW0ChAFP20OAbuyiTye9QKLYz4aLIan7wdzcqrhhMu7JEdqwK 8nuzUBTN2J-hnERCDfneaand_HoF1eYO8PDtQQN3iM-52jTgzhOf985xrDFkqWIGo_3xJYFOPBRDdJnaCdFQJ8m9zFLmW X5eRRCQxh38rlLIZMvQJfth37GylPfwgMUEtotX6e0Jc8Llzce JAxU9iD3N8TQy-FU4DEFWuZS5L3JSkfzmAwLp_ZrOUoZ1BZ3O25u2XVGPuBkxas4 ySA9R7bJFuDFRWYjYH38D840kdVbydVK_9gf8TIV2w1rhoAuPb l-sq9kXPkPXf0hiGwP1xYgTsQUVGHz3U5-peehiwNCOu0AYNjdYBj2O4bQcAnrGreQo0rVZjJNNU54CjXlVG kBsSWj6rE7nU7XZ2FTJq3PtFb7fkr3LqHjhlFW-DKnyRBBD3n_NZ6WXNM5ILbcXBkVRujvV7cWKSwWlDZZcvJ1JZ4 FNbxM9x85L37F1KyWZuO9k6jsquBVnyW3GubUC4b6DrccDFKTN G0gJfDO1gK6nfJgyrRMpHGXnjEUb6uatIOhOK6iqxZK1-XVwH3ipHRnFJMh15KYhX2bu5yaXcNJT2_cIJdQWcQWVmbJPaK0 DvnUYhqnohGjKMEX93Fx5nQlcuKju2Bsl1FPqUSQpc98i5ks50 A=w1757-h988-no
24 hours later:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZD9AD5ghDZHEz_sQf0P64Usem4YvFqBdiCHMRpY8ZGGOwbEHUw wg00-xQ_fNnS1nqgj7xaLHyFDB3Icd5lo0vv-tjHWSYEdqqftiDRECTj6tDtJaoxAUI4_ygfgrcQALy0SgUfOAM b7Z-H9RbwEYjzFO3NbB3gu_P3MT9sPkGQ8uE0p_RuHONXAVrvWE_1c 36vf7oqQhUdmH_Tnv9S4dwx7LRUAxILrFI2a44DrAIRU-FW4rk2hNV0kGnBic8wh1LLOK5znYNdPrJGztbYKmwEYs4ss7tO 5B4bxTr0Rwc4Q9MBCimAovDc4Oi1YAXHJVyVQz3QQdC4v5tSdN rQRYnjWW1OdlPD0KpoS7M8Bi9xTg3FvD9dTk07lcN1QImx-rbryzoJ0kotZ4aSS1RAlH609YzQC2fFfLwK2hLY8rv5-EJRrUQ3mA4Gh6bTkURZPzMFWZSRVxk87He9Py0j8v9jlLwV3m8 FMAtjelCGx_wERMItVts0RQj_0elSWtOGAoJEd0IrkXoua3BiK 4mdoj-HstH16ZRw5TNuZ5ttdg9SKEob6IcsI3c7oz1fZaPnzObZc5n5K GOJEiBD21vNbbH8JlAifSYBvOmKcJtLYTHxiyiqYa7c3ZYAvYp 5xZpjqJfN0aehVnQtjRDQLFKTjjc7SJ8a_IN6HZqaRo=w741-h988-no

- - - Updated - - -

With the locks, if you really want to preserve the originals, it is easier to pick locks than people think. Double bitted it a bit of a PITA to learn on though. The blades that street sweepers drop everywhere make great improvised picks and torsion tools.

People say "Well what do you do once you've got the lock open? You still don't have a key". It's possible to pull all the pins from the lock once you've got the lock plug out of the machine so then you don't need any key, the lock just turns. I assume a locksmith would be able to make a key from the plug too.

Autosteve
10th December 2017, 10:41 AM
Locks.....Flat screw driver with a square shaft.

Shifter on square shaft.

Insert screw drive tip in lock slot.

Gut against screw driver handle to hold in place and turn shifter down 90 degrees.

POP, your in and can recover all the parts except the barrel..

Takes about 5 seconds.;)

Brad
10th December 2017, 10:42 AM
Wow that coin door came up really nice!

Thanks for all the tips. I think I'll just use std barrel locks if you cant get originals. I won't bother with lock picking, as you've said what about keys.

Cheers,

Brad

Brad
10th December 2017, 05:47 PM
So drilled the locks out today and found the original service packet inside along with a pack of fuses and a notebook with service dates on it and what they did. Service dates only go back to 1980 but very very cool!

Schematics, instructions, operator instruction, site instructions, coil instructions, spare game instruction cards, a myriad of score cards as apparently you can adjust it to about 10 different scoring methods. Also the remains of a rubber kit. I've taken closeup shots of everything in case someone is interested.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171210_172841.jpg

Brad

illawarra_steelers
10th December 2017, 06:56 PM
cool, just saw this :)

game designer norm clark = winning. that guy was a legend designer.

seeing it has only one coin slot i would say she is originally from europe, probably a good bet one of tony turner's import as there were 3 (from memory) in one of his containers.

now - the legs, as doug said if you have the 25" for the front that is huge bonus as they are almost impossible to find. i would suggest evaporust then hammertone them, those williams legs come up looking awesome after that.

same goes for the door, they come up looking pretty cool with hammertone paint. the bolt heads will come up sweet putting them in a drill and hitting them with very fine wet and dry with some nifty.

front door decals are available from pinball rescue: http://www.pinballrescue.net/Decals_Coin_Door.html

regarding the paint match, seriously i think too many people get too picky on being the perfect blue/red/green etc. if you can get a section around the 4cm square you can take the cab into bunnings (or the head with the guts/backglass out) and get them to paint match it. other than that, get colours close enough and go with that.

white base antique white.

nobody will ever look at the game and think, okay that blue is 1 shade too light/dark.

redoing that design will be easy. honestly wouldn't go with stencils, would go with tape - see my surf side resto.

the biggest pain will be joining up all those wires between the head and cab.

top rollover button is missing, either send me a pm with your postal address and i will send a new one or grab one when you are down here in a few months.

nothing that can't be saved and restored on this old girl.

look forward to watching the progress.

oh and welcome to the dark side ;)

ajfclark
10th December 2017, 07:40 PM
Sweet goodies!

In case my description of the dip tube I use for legs wasn't clear, here's a picture:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171210/bb4bd6c57d2209620d2476ce5a83f27c.jpg

Brad
11th December 2017, 08:00 AM
No your description was spot on as its exactly how I thought it would be. Will be doing this over the christmas break as I have 3 weeks off!

Cheers,

Brad


Sweet goodies!

In case my description of the dip tube I use for legs wasn't clear, here's a picture:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171210/bb4bd6c57d2209620d2476ce5a83f27c.jpg

Brad
11th December 2017, 08:34 AM
cool, just saw this :)

game designer norm clark = winning. that guy was a legend designer.

seeing it has only one coin slot i would say she is originally from europe, probably a good bet one of tony turner's import as there were 3 (from memory) in one of his containers.

Normally I'd defer to your knowledge as you've forgotten more about EM's than I'll ever know. In this case though I'm lucky enough to have access to more clues. I mean you could still be right but I don't think this machine ever left our fair shores. Check out some of the hints in the photos!

First, everything is in English and I know that's spoken a lot in various countries over there but still a good indicator. Second if my research is correct, the coin door with that coin slot was in the original run for these machines. They were changed to STD body shape and 3 slot mechs in the second run which rumour has it was due to the huge popularity in Germany :unsure

There are entries here from 1980 up to 1993. I'm assuming the numbers against each entry are part numbers?

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/service_log.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/service_log_2.jpg

Then we have an old pack of fuses with "Made in Australia" on them

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/fuses.jpg


now - the legs, as doug said if you have the 25" for the front that is huge bonus as they are almost impossible to find. i would suggest evaporust then hammertone them, those williams legs come up looking awesome after that.

same goes for the door, they come up looking pretty cool with hammertone paint. the bolt heads will come up sweet putting them in a drill and hitting them with very fine wet and dry with some nifty.

front door decals are available from pinball rescue: http://www.pinballrescue.net/Decals_Coin_Door.html (http://www.pinballrescue.net/Decals_Coin_Door.html)

Yes I'm going to bow to the recommendations all of you guys have given. I'll hunt up the appropriate brand, colours later. I'm going to put together a work list and then the requirements for each as I go. millsy56 post for that is gold!


regarding the paint match, seriously i think too many people get too picky on being the perfect blue/red/green etc. if you can get a section around the 4cm square you can take the cab into bunnings (or the head with the guts/backglass out) and get them to paint match it. other than that, get colours close enough and go with that.

white base antique white.

nobody will ever look at the game and think, okay that blue is 1 shade too light/dark.

redoing that design will be easy. honestly wouldn't go with stencils, would go with tape - see my surf side resto.

As above this is great. I'm not really going to use stencils, I just want to use that method for easy measurements. I used tape when I built my V-Pin as linked in the first post and it came up a treat. The design on this is really easy so should be pretty good. My only issue is that we're hitting massive humidity season here so may not be the best weather for painting. Do you guys use foam rollers or brushes? Also what sort of paint, acrylic, enamel?



the biggest pain will be joining up all those wires between the head and cab.

Actually this may show how naive I am when it comes to pinball machines but this is the bit other than the painting that I'm most comfortable about. Done LOTS of wiring over the years. Please let me know if I'm kidding myself :lol


top rollover button is missing, either send me a pm with your postal address and i will send a new one or grab one when you are down here in a few months.

Mate VERY generous and I'll be sure to hit you up if/when needed. You might curse that though as I'll probably ask a lot of questions :D


nothing that can't be saved and restored on this old girl.

look forward to watching the progress.

IK'm really excited about this project. It's a beautiful piece and deserved to be rescued imo.


oh and welcome to the dark side ;)

LOL I know, a slippery slope I reckon.

Check out some closeups. I can scan all of these in high resolution if anyone wants them?

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171211_063320.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171211_063149.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171211_063203.jpg

harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171211_063149.jpg

ajfclark
11th December 2017, 08:41 AM
Actually this may show how naive I am when it comes to pinball machines but this is the bit other than the painting that I'm most comfortable about. Done LOTS of wiring over the years. Please let me know if I'm kidding myself :lol
Few bags of wire nuts should do it. ;)

I've found getting solder to take to old wire is a lot more finicky than fresh. The colours on the insulation are likely faded and hard to distinguish so you might have to do some tracing to make sure you're connecting the right things. If you've got an accurate schematic, I think it'll be fiddly, but not overly difficult. I have never had to do it so I could be wrong.

Foot
11th December 2017, 08:51 AM
Are numbers in the note book increasing with each date entry? High scores maybe?

Brad
11th December 2017, 08:58 AM
Are numbers in the note book increasing with each date entry? High scores maybe?

Damn never thought of that. I wonder? Maybe a coin counter for how many games have been played on it?

Brad

madal
11th December 2017, 12:51 PM
Damn never thought of that. I wonder? Maybe a coin counter for how many games have been played on it?

Brad

I would think it Looks to be games played or coins counter.

Gemini2544
12th December 2017, 09:12 AM
Nice project pin Brad, pity the Jones plugs were cut instead of being unplugged, extra work for you there! Fair bit of time ahead of you but she'll be sweet once done. :)

Brad
12th December 2017, 01:44 PM
Okay guys, I maybe getting a little too excited about all of this. I've been reading up links all over the place for repair/maintenance. This is a great resource: http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=EM_Repair#Introduction along with this gold: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/

I want to do most of this myself so it's going to be a journey and a half but I can't wait. I've put together a VERY quick brief list of tasks (in no particular order) with no detail as yet. Can you experienced guys sanity check it and possible answer any questions? Appreciate any help, pointers, additions, advice and no no's :)

Task List


Cabinet:



Strip down
Trace
Paint Stripper/sand
Bog
Undercoat
Tape
Paint


Head box:



Take out Translite and triple thick it
Strip down
Trace
Paint Stripper/Sand
Bog
Undercoat
Tape
Paint


Mechanics:



How to clean?
Disassemble cab without having to take them all apart?


Legs/Coin Door:



Evaporust
Metal Primer
Paint (hammertone)


Wiring:



Re-wire harness.
How to test everything before plugging in?


Playfield:



Novus clean
Breakdown/restore pop-bumpers,
Plastics
Drop Targets
Replace roll over/s


Check to see if power switch. If not put one in.

Investigate replacing bulbs with LED's

Shooter rod is missing end
Missing Leg Bolts. Need to check for internal brackets.

Things to purchase:

Krylon Triple Thick (will 1 tin be enough?)
2 x Barrel Locks
4 Leg Levellers
Shooter Rod or rod end
Rubber kit
New Balls
Leg Bolts & Maybe Brackets
LED's?
New Pop Bumpers?

What vendors are best for all of this? Have I forgotten anything?

Cheers,

Brad

Gemini2544
12th December 2017, 02:00 PM
For Vendors- check AA's sponsor links..

ajfclark
12th December 2017, 02:21 PM
If the backglass is already flaking, I'd move dealing with that towards the top of the list. Krylon Triple Thick is available in Victoria from Spotlight.

Gemini2544
12th December 2017, 02:25 PM
Post #16 (https://www.aussiearcade.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=16) https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/89141-cleopatra-playfield-colours?highlight=backglass+repair+gemini2544

It is possible.

illawarra_steelers
12th December 2017, 03:32 PM
just quickly as I'm at work - let me know what length the shooter rod is as I will have spares.

Brk_oth
12th December 2017, 04:19 PM
Check to see if power switch. If not put one in.
There's no power switch on the cabinet for this - it was made before power switches became standard on pinballs.... so you will have to put on in.

Brad
16th December 2017, 02:51 PM
Okay, so one of my biggest concerns is the state of the back glass. So I've been looking at options this week for it. However over the last few days I've also been toying with Photoshop. Grabbed a really nice image off the net of a NIB (personal not commercial) but it was taken at an angle, perspective was off and the resolution was pretty low. Photoshop has a perspective warp feature and I managed to convert it successfully.

Original:

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/backglassoriginal.jpg

Perspective Warped and Resolution increased

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/Perspective%20and%20Res%20Increase.jpg

Cropped

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/Cropped.jpg


I then ran it though Vector Magic and vectorised it so that I could re-touch all the colours. There's a fair bit of work in that but the real issue are the words. They came up pretty poorly at full size and the only real option is to recreate them. I just need to identify the font. So with that WIP I proceeded to have a close look at the headbox today and took it apart

Check out front and back. Faded all over and most of the skin tone is gone =(

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/backglassfront.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/backglassback.jpg

Now looking at it closely I think if I can match that skin tone I "might" be able to bring this up to semi-decent shape. I bought some Krylon Triple Thick (Spotlight stock it and so do a LOT of art stores). Got mine from the local Art Shop planning to do it this weekend. Closer inspection has be tempted to wait until I try and repaint before using the Triple Thick. Before I do that I'll be taking it to work to scan the glass on one of our A3 scanners. I can then stick together and see what result I get.

Started scraping the gunk off the top of the unit:

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/ewwww.jpg


Much better, bonus is its taking the paint off too!

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/gunk.jpg

The back cover is in pretty good shape. Will clean, paint and replace lock.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/backcover.jpg

A few bulbs missing but overall in pretty good shape. Some yellowing on parts of the score reels.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/scorereels.jpg

Innards

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/innards.jpg

Oh god why oh why. I mean these unplug. Fortunately the harnesses are in tact and wire colours clear and easily seen so repairing this will be easy.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/whyohwhy.jpg

About 8 of these bulbs have slivers of wood against them. I'm assuming to keep them off the sides of the insert but it's also wood :unsure

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/why.jpg

More to come.

Cheers,

Brad

wiredoug
16th December 2017, 03:07 PM
About 8 of these bulbs have slivers of wood against them.

matches to keep the bulb pushed up hard against the crappy corrodeded socket

if you need to fix them you will be wanting this https://www.bunnings.com.au/dremel-rotary-tool-accessory-carbon-steel-brushes-443-2-pack_p6280099

and your choice of dremel ( the little cordless ones great)

but replacing them is nice if you can.. http://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/a-8262.html

i suggest you get it working before you worry about making it look pretty.. play it a bit first

Brad
16th December 2017, 03:13 PM
Thanks to @ajfclark (https://www.aussiearcade.com/member.php?u=19364) and the suggestions from the rest of you guys I bought some Evaporust today. SuperCheapAuto stock it also that name is a misnomer for this product :o

Parts at Bunnings cost me $10.00 and $5.00 for the glue but now I have to wait for it to cure overnight. So behold the Leg Restore Station! :D

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/legrestorestation.jpg

Brad

- - - Updated - - -


matches to keep the bulb pushed up hard against the crappy corrodeded socket

if you need to fix them you will be wanting this https://www.bunnings.com.au/dremel-rotary-tool-accessory-carbon-steel-brushes-443-2-pack_p6280099

and your choice of dremel ( the little cordless ones great)

but replacing them is nice if you can.. http://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/a-8262.html

i suggest you get it working before you worry about making it look pretty.. play it a bit first


Thanks for the suggestions!

Ultimately I want to replace the bulbs with LED's although for some that's sacrilege. I'll wait and see.

Sure I should get it going first and in fact, once I've traced the artwork (bunnings didn't have rolls of tracing paper), I'm going to fix the harness, check the unit all over and see if it powers up. I'll then see what needs to be done. Irrespective of any of that, I still want to restore the old girl. She deserves it and I find this will be a rite of passage for me ;)

Cheers,

Brad

Brk_oth
16th December 2017, 03:27 PM
Irrespective of any of that, I still want to restore the old girl. She deserves it and I find this will be a right of passage for me ;)

If inside the cabinet looks anything like inside the backbox, it should be a very easy job for you. Everything looks clean and complete..
(except I noticed one minor thing missing in the backbox, you'll have a very quiet game, its missing the part on the match unit to hit the bell..... quick fix though, just make a plum-bob out of a bit of wire and a nut.)

Cant' wait until you've reconnected the wiring harness so you can fire it up to see what's working.

Brad
16th December 2017, 03:31 PM
If inside the cabinet looks anything like inside the backbox, it should be a very easy job for you. Everything looks clean and complete..
(except I noticed one minor thing missing in the backbox, you'll have a very quiet game, its missing the part on the match unit to hit the bell..... quick fix though, just make a plum-bob out of a bit of wire and a nut.)

Cant' wait until you've reconnected the wiring harness so you can fire it up to see what's working.

Okay n00b time. Could you possible circle inside that picture what part you're talking about? :confused:

Cheers,

Brad

Brk_oth
16th December 2017, 03:42 PM
Okay n00b time. Could you possible circle inside that picture what part you're talking about? :confused:

Cheers,

Brad


This here:
121169

Is missing this part:
121170

This is what makes noise during gameplay, every time you score 10 points it also turns the match unit.

A quick and dirty fix:
121171


From your backbox pic I can't see anything else missing, although its not a high res pic and lighting not the best... but if that is the only thing missing, then that's extremely good as that's very minor.

Brad
16th December 2017, 03:46 PM
Yeah I've been reducing the pic sizes so they fit and load okay. Thanks a bunch for that! I need to pick up a few parts so I'll see if I can source that as well. I need Leg Bolts, Leg Plates, Protectors, some bulbs and now this. Of course the list will only grow ;)


Cheers,

Brad

illawarra_steelers
16th December 2017, 04:34 PM
hey brad, send me your mailing address and i'll send you up enough tracing paper (really high quality stuff complements of work) in the next few days.

will send up enough for both sides.

this: https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/84480-high-quality-tracing-paper-(awesome-for-stencils)?highlight=tracing+paper

goodolddays
17th December 2017, 06:03 PM
I must learn Photoshop etc. That8 backglass image you have doctored up looks great

Sent from my SM-A520F using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

ajfclark
17th December 2017, 06:20 PM
I must learn Photoshop etc. That8 backglass image you have doctored up looks great

Sent from my SM-A520F using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)
Could you use this as a base? From http://bgresto.com/

http://bgresto.com/pics/wms_agogo2s.jpg

It's pretty angular, might be possible to use Inkscape to make a vector version and then blow it up to whatever size you need?

Sent from my SM-G900I using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

millsy56
17th December 2017, 08:09 PM
How about scanning your original glass if you can locate a scanner (would lend you mine if you were located closer)
I have scanned a few glasses ,stitched & photoshopped,very time consuming but they seemed to look ok,never got around to printing them however.
121320121321121323
http://www.pinballaustralia.com/backglassresto.htm

Brad
19th December 2017, 01:10 PM
Okay, since I don't have time during the week for painting and all the other stuff I've continued toying around with scanning and retouching using Adobe Illustrator.

Scanned, stitched and test colour replacement. I've done the green and red so far. The colours are off as the source images I'm finding aren't great. I'll adjust the shading in the proper work file after a bit of practice. Here you can see my test image. Left is working file, right is reference image.

Once you get into rhythm you can get through it pretty quick. I wasn't happy with the scanner result so took a decent resolution photo with my trusty Canon 60D. I'm going to take a proper one over the weekend in RAW format and try a more accurate image capture

Autosteve
19th December 2017, 03:08 PM
Okay, since I don't have time during the week for painting and all the other stuff I've continued toying around with scanning and retouching using Adobe Illustrator.

Scanned, stitched and test colour replacement. I've done the green and red so far. The colours are off as the source images I'm finding aren't great. I'll adjust the shading in the proper work file after a bit of practice. Here you can see my test image. Left is working file, right is reference image.

Once you get into rhythm you can get through it pretty quick. I wasn't happy with the scanner result so took a decent resolution photo with my trusty Canon 60D. I'm going to take a proper one over the weekend in RAW format and try a more accurate image capture

The green may be a tad darker but I think it will blend nicely when all the other colours are in place. Actually I think the slightly darker green will suit better.

Amazing job you are doing on it I think. Are you going to turn it into a translite or paint onto glass?.

Brad
19th December 2017, 03:21 PM
The green may be a tad darker but I think it will blend nicely when all the other colours are in place. Actually I think the slightly darker green will suit better.

Amazing job you are doing on it I think. Are you going to turn it into a translite or paint onto glass?.

Thanks! =)

Yeah the green is a little too fluorescent in my opinion but I wanted to wait until I had most of it filled as the other colours will tone it down. Hard to get accuracy when the only image sI can find are rendered from the Web and so reduced. Like you said though I think with a little tinkering it'll come up nice if not 100% faithful to the original.

My plan is to get is reverse printed on a new piece of glass to replace the old one completely.

I tell you what though. Learning a lot about Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop. Never done anything like this before.

Just finished the blues!

illawarra_steelers
19th December 2017, 04:37 PM
thejudge - hey trevor share the link what you did (can't find it)

thejudge
19th December 2017, 05:17 PM
thejudge - hey trevor share the link what you did (can't find it)

This was my posts for the pinball pool backglass.

https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/89536-Where-to-get-Backglass-glass-from-in-Sydney

Brad
19th December 2017, 05:30 PM
illawarra_steelers and thejudge

Great information right there! Fortunately no mirror here. I like the reverse printed on vinyl, certainly maybe a better approach. Like you guys I'm not paying almost $500.00 for a repro backglass. Sure I'll put some hours into this but I'm learning something new AND enjoying it and I think the end result should come looking okay.

cheers,

Brad

Autosteve
19th December 2017, 05:52 PM
I'm not paying almost $500.00 for a repro backglass. Sure I'll put some hours into this but I'm learning something new AND enjoying it and I think the end result should come looking okay.

cheers,

Brad

Actually, I enjoy the restoration, restoring old parts and making old parts better far more than the shopping and replacing with new parts myself with pinballs.

It is that satisfaction of bringing a part back from the dead you have done with your own hands I guess is the biggest buzz I get out of the whole job.

Sure, it may not be absolutely perfect but pinballs weren't prefect from the factory anyway and a lot of parts can be made so much better including colour schemes.

Brad
20th December 2017, 10:31 AM
Okay people who know me well know that I'm a bit on the obsessive side. I've powered through and semi-completed this. It's a proof of concept to see if I could do it and this test had given me the confidence that I can. Before and After results below. Note I have not cleaned up ANY of the black,or text nor touched anchors so a quite a number of the lines are not correct but no bad.

Starting this week I'm going to take a RAW high resolution image of my original backglass with my DSLR, and then go through the motions to do a full re-colour. Wish me luck =)

Cheers,

Brad

Gemini2544
20th December 2017, 10:40 AM
Post everything you can Brad, I'd love to see how this is done from start to end. :)

Brad
20th December 2017, 10:52 AM
Post everything you can @Brad (https://www.aussiearcade.com/member.php?u=217), I'd love to see how this is done from start to end. :)


Will do, this can be a learning experience for us all :D

Brad
21st December 2017, 09:51 AM
Okay Tutorial 01 - Backglass Restore - Image Capture

Heed the advice of those much wiser than you like @millsy56 (https://www.aussiearcade.com/member.php?u=2326) I've tried a number of methods to get a decent capture of my backglass and by far THE best is to scan it at high resolution. Hands the down the most accurate and BEST quality. It will help you immensely when it comes time to re-touch colours etc.

Don't worry that the glass is too big for your scans as you will take a scan of each part of the glass (don't worry about overlaps) and then stitch them all together.

Some examples:

Image "borrowed" from the internet.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/imaging/webimage.png

Note the quality looks okay. Until you have to scale it up for printing, then all of a sudden you have a mess of pixelation that will look like arse when printed. See comparison below


High Resolution Photo with DLSR.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/imaging/dlsrphoto.jpg

This is not a bad option if you have no access to a scanner but it means more work in restoring. Now I tried taking a RAW format image but this is next level stuff processing and I had no idea so I ditched it.

High Resolution Scan - I've only shown part as the file is huuuuuge.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/imaging/stitched_top.png

Note how clear and sharp the edges are! Also the colours are spot on and clearly shows just how faded and ratshit the paint is. Easily the most accurate and best quality.

Side by side comparison. Web Image, DLSR, Scan

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/imaging/comparison.png

Now you want crisp clear edges at high resolution as you will be vectorising the image for repair AND printing. Vector graphics scale without pixelation so your finished product looks great and not like a CRT with 1cm sized pixels ;)

Next lesson will be stitching the scans together. I have to admit to an embarrassing error I made when scanning my backglass. We have A3 Scanners at work so I took it in and took 4 scans rotating corners. I didn't check my work before taking it back home and when I started putting the 4 images together quickly realised that at A3 AND scanning from each corner completely misses a section right through the middle of about 2 cm's :rolleyes

So I need to bring it back in again tomorrow to capture that centre line :laugh:

Cheers,

Brad

goodolddays
21st December 2017, 10:24 AM
that side by side comparison really shows the difference . Will be watching and learning here Brad. Thanks for taking the time to share this

simonsrat
21st December 2017, 10:49 AM
thanks for sharing that comparison. looking forward to following your progress on that glass.

cheers,

S

Brad
21st December 2017, 12:30 PM
Tutorial 02 - Backglass Restore - Stitching Images Together

Now I'm lucky enough to have access to Adobe Creative Cloud Suite through work as we have a Marketing and Design Dept.

Now I've never really used either before, preferring to use http://photofiltre.free.fr/frames_en.htm for personal use at home. Been using it for years and long ago used to use Paint Shop Pro before Corel bought them out. I've only ever done REALLY basic stuff.

So with some trepidation I dived it.

I have 4 images I needed to stitch together. Luckily Photoshop has a built in option to do this automagically. I'll show you stitching together two of the images. I can't show the full one yet due to missing the centre section. (see previous post)

Starting with Top Left and Top Right which currently look like this. Note they are in separate Windows. Disregard the fact that the image below is in Adobe Illustrator. Purely for display purposes.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/imaging/unstitched_top.png

1 - Open Up Photoshop
2 - Select File, Automate, Photomerge

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/imaging/photomerge.png

3 - Click Browse and select the images you're joining

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/imaging/photomerge_options.png

4 - Ensure Auto is selected and Click OK

Photoshop will now do its magic and blends the images together with no overlap and a seamless join. It will take a few minutes depending on how powerful your computer is,

5 - Save the image as a new file.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/imaging/stitched_top.png

Notice despite a massive overlap in the original two images, Photoshop managed to merge them perfectly into a single image. What an awesome and powerful tool!

Next step, Vectorising

Cheers,

Brad

Autosteve
21st December 2017, 01:03 PM
You have seen the different colours on this back-glass. How many screen print layers was the glass done originally in the factory on this back-glass?.

Hard to imagine the glass was originally screen printed and directly onto glass with such accuracy.

They must have used super fast drying paint or the factory would have been full of drying back-glasses waiting for the different layers of paint to dry.

Thanks for the excellent pictorial explaining for others to follow by the way.

Brad
21st December 2017, 01:28 PM
You have seen the different colours on this back-glass. How many screen print layers was the glass done originally in the factory on this back-glass?.

Hard to imagine the glass was originally screen printed and directly onto glass with such accuracy.

They must have used super fast drying paint or the factory would have been full of drying back-glasses waiting for the different layers of paint to dry.

Thanks for the excellent pictorial explaining for others to follow by the way.

I'm certainly no expert but it looks to me from the physical evidence that it's been done in layers (one per colour). The blending and light up areas would attest to that.

Brad

Gemini2544
21st December 2017, 03:41 PM
Impressive so far Brad. Good work. :)

Brad
22nd December 2017, 01:39 PM
Tutorial 03 - Backglass Restore - Vectorising

Okay after bringing the backglass into work again and scanning the missing middle section I had 6 images I needed to merge into one. Using the method described in tutorial 2 I managed to get a single file of the full image. Weighing in at a hefty 1Gb in size as a Photoshop File! Now since I need to vectorise this and the Application I'm using doesn't support Photoshop files I had to export this into a PNG for best results. End result is a have a really high resolution image which is 90Mb in size.

http://www.harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/workingwithvectorimages/pass_05_complete_resize.png

So time to vectorise. We want to vectorise the image as its currently a raster image. Retouching a raster image is a huuuuge amnount of work as it's at the pixel level. Now there are tools and methods to mitigate that but since I'm a complete novice and have no idea I'm going a much easier route.

Vectorising an image essentially turns objects in a raster image from pixels to shapes. That's probably a simplistic term but I repeat I'm a n00b when it comes to this.

Now Photoshop and/or Illustrator can do this using the Tracing Tool but it's manual and a large amount of work. So I'm using a product called Vector Magic. This effectively automates the job by importing the image, in this case, the image above, taking some settings options and hitting go. I'm not going to go through all the steps except to say I didn't use the One Touch option as the result wasz pretty ordinary for a picture this faded and complex. I tweaked some settings, told it to save as an AI file (Adobe Illustrator) and hit go. About 5 minutes later it spat out a file that went from 90Mb in size down to 8.5Mb. A much simpler format and therefore less data to store in the file.

So what it does is analyse the colour data in the image and attempts to trace shapes around all colour regions. You can see an example below.

http://www.harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/workingwithvectorimages/vector_003.png

Note the blue outline. This is where I hover my mouse cursor within Illustrator and it highlights that shape. The entire image is now in this format! Note the shape line follows where the colour is the same. Everywhere the colour changes, you get a new shape.

Lets zoom in on a distinctive feature to get a better look at it.

http://www.harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/workingwithvectorimages/vector_004.png

All of those different colours are a separate shape within the file now making it MUCH easier to change its colour. Notice how crisp and sharp those lines are. On my practice image I used a DLSR capture and those lines were jaggy as hell. Scanning the backglass as high resolution produced a vastly superior image to work with and it shows in this result.

Note how many shapes are in this image and this is NOT zoomed in.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/workingwithvectorimages/outlines.png



Next up: Touching up colours

Brad
23rd December 2017, 07:10 AM
Tutorial 04 - Backglass Restore - Re-Touching Colours

Now we can get on to re-colourising this image. All of the colours on mine are massively faded along with sections where the paint is gone totally. We need to restore not only the fill but the correct shade. The easiest way is to grab the correct colours from another image. We can't use mine as a reference due to the massive fading. So I had to try and find a reference image that would suit. The problem is that I cannot find a really good reference. Every time you change an image format, process it, reduce it for the web etc, the image colours get changed so will not be accurate. I hunted high and low and these were the best I could find.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/vector_reference_01.png

Note the difference in each image, particularly with the shading of each colour. All completely different. So realistically I'm never going to get the 100% correct colour, but I can get close. Ultimately I chose the bottom left as the best of a bad bunch as its a repro backglass, despite being a jpg and low resolution.

My backglass and the reference image side by side.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/vector_reference_03.png

I'm going to pick a detailed part, zoom in and start re-colourising.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/colour_pick01.png

Again note my scanned image on the left and the pixelated mess reference image on the right!

In Adobe Illustrator you need to have the two images opened up side by side. We start by selecting the shape I want to re-colour. Let's start with a blue section.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/colour_pick02.png

Once selected, press i on your keyboard. This opens the eye dropper tool. If you click and then drag the eye-dropper tool to the colour you want to use from the reference image and let go the shape you selected turns into that colour.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/colour_pick03.png

And done

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/colour_pick04.png

Now you can play around with the colours and even edit them within Illustrator to get a shade that looks and feels right so don't feel too concerned that it might be a little off. To make that easier, once you pick a colour stick with it across the entire glass and later you can mass select ALL elements with the same colour and change them all at once. Normally I'd stick with one colour and do ALL elements across the glass that need that colour but for this tutorial I'll just concentrate on this head. Once you have an element coloured in your image use that as your new reference colour.

Select the next element, press i and click on your reference element. Rinse and repeat.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/colour_pick05.png

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/colour_pick06.png

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/colour_pick07.png

Filled in right side of weird mid-60's hat

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/colour_pick08.png

Hat, eye shadow and inside mouth done

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/colour_pick09.png

Orange shading

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/colour_pick10.png

Face colours done

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/colour_pick11.png

Now the blacks

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/colour_pick12.png

Comparison

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/tutorials/touchups/colour_pick13.png

Now I'm pretty lucky with this glass as its fairly simple and doesn't have a lot of colours something like 14-15. So whilst tedious it's going to be a fairly quick image restore.

That should be it for my little image tutorials. It's just more of the same now. I'll update with the finished product when done. I hope they help you out. I taught myself how to do this in a few days and there might be better ways to do it but it works for me =)

Cheers,

Brad

goodolddays
23rd December 2017, 01:42 PM
Fantastic Brad. You make it all sound pretty easy. What an amazing improvement.


Sent from my SM-A520F using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

Brad
26th December 2017, 04:56 PM
Okay with Christmas and work I've not had loads of time for this but I have been plugging away at the backglass restore and its coming up really nice. I had my son over for Christmas and before he left I had him help me muscle this unbelievably heavy unit outside so I can do some work on it.

I began splicing the the harness to the headbox together. There are three plugs that had their wires cut =(

Anyway the wires are colour coded so I wanted to splice them together to fault fins and work out what I might need. I started working on in it and all was good until I came across a plug where 2 of the same colour pattern was used. I initially though they might be blue/yellow and blue gold but even with a magnifying glass they're identical. Unlike on the largest harness where like pair terminated in the same pin, these ones are different.

Any idea on how I can identify which pairs should be joined?

Cheers,

Brad

ajfclark
26th December 2017, 05:03 PM
Okay with Christmas and work I've not had loads of time for this but I have been plugging away at the backglass restore and its coming up really nice. I had my son over for Christmas and before he left I had him help me muscle this unbelievably heavy unit outside so I can do some work on it.

I began splicing the the harness to the headbox together. There are three plugs that had their wires cut =(

Anyway the wires are colour coded so I wanted to splice them together to fault fins and work out what I might need. I started working on in it and all was good until I came across a plug where 2 of the same colour pattern was used. I initially though they might be blue/yellow and blue gold but even with a magnifying glass they're identical. Unlike on the largest harness where like pair terminated in the same pin, these ones are different.

Any idea on how I can identify which pairs should be joined?

Cheers,

Brad
I'd trace the wires and see where they go. I'd also look at the female half of the Jones plug and trace the wires. My feeling is if they are the same colour, they go to the same thing?

Sent from my SM-G900I using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

greydog
26th December 2017, 05:04 PM
Would it be possible to match the wires to where they were cut, looks like one is cut on an angle and and the other is straight, long shot but worth a close look.

Brad
26th December 2017, 05:09 PM
Both good ideas but I've just solved it.

Not sure wether its by design OR a manufacturing run but I put all 4 wires side by side. On two of them the spaces between the blue and the yellow are slightly off. Enough so that after 3-4 repeats 2 wires clearly have a slightly larger gap.

Cheers,

Brad

Brad
26th December 2017, 06:35 PM
It LIVES!

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/20171226_171349.jpg

ajfclark
26th December 2017, 06:45 PM
Both good ideas but I've just solved it.

Not sure wether its by design OR a manufacturing run but I put all 4 wires side by side. On two of them the spaces between the blue and the yellow are slightly off. Enough so that after 3-4 repeats 2 wires clearly have a slightly larger gap.

Cheers,

Brad
Gottlieb has blu-yel and blu+yel designations on their schematics with similar meaning, but they are a little more distinct. I don't recall seeing them side by side like this, but I've never had to repair a cut harness like this.

Really good work getting this back together.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

Brad
26th December 2017, 09:27 PM
An artwork update. Still have two player score reel sections to finish and then a fair bit of tidying up with shapes, lines and the text on the bottom left.

Original Scan on the left, my rework on the right obviously ;)

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/almost.jpg

Gemini2544
27th December 2017, 06:42 AM
I hope you soldered & used heat shrink on the harness repair. Not twist the wires & tape it. :o

ajfclark
27th December 2017, 07:17 AM
I hope you soldered & used heat shrink on the harness repair. Not twist the wires & tape it. :o
You raise a good point. I was focused on the wires so I didn't notice the electrical tape over the joins, which always seems to lose its stickiness after a few years and fall off on me. Maybe I just have shit electrical tape though?

Brad
27th December 2017, 07:51 AM
I hope you soldered & used heat shrink on the harness repair. Not twist the wires & tape it. :o

LOL You know I didn't solder ;)

No I heeded Wiredoug's advice and hooked it up temporarily to see if anything worked and then isolate what might not before going over the machine.

I'm teaching myself a LOT of the skills required to do this restore as I go. Soldering is a biggie for me as I'm REALLY bad at it. I was contemplating using terminal blocks but just to set your mind at ease I bought one of these last week.

121712

I need to practice and also there is almost no slack in that harness so its going to be super awkward.

Now once I'd powered it up, I thought hmm, nothing going on then remembered you have to press the left flipper button. So did that and in what I thought was a miracle it fired up, bulbs and all. Fortunately the machine had already been set to free play (the coin mech is missing) and pressing the start game button fired it up. I played the machine for a good 20 minutes noting issues. I ended the game, reset the machine and now it won't play a game anymore. Loads wrong as you can see in the video below.



Player 1 & 2 Score Reels do not reset properly. 2nd reel from the left on Player 2 slips.
Credit Counter doesn't move at all and in fact the current facing spot is blank
Game now no longer starts as its I assume trying to reset the score reels
Left Flipper on the right hand pair, doesn't work or just shudders slowly partially moves (Assuming its a coil problem)
As expected rubbers are kaput
2 lifted roll-overs and one missing one
Pop bumpers need work and the plastics need to be replaced
Plastics are filthy. I bought some novus and will test but they probably need to be replaced.
Playfield is filthy, so will test spot with Novus to see the result.
Appears to be mylared and not too bad but I have zero experience in this so I could be dreaming


Plenty more to note.

The upside is the roulette wheel works and works well!

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/startup.mp4

Cheers,

Brad

Brk_oth
27th December 2017, 08:47 AM
No need to worry about having not much experience with soldering, an EM is probably the best thing to practice on, as you dont need to be too accurate and it doesnt matter much if you make a mess - not like soldering components on a circuit board.

theres a relay in the back of the headbox that controls the reset of the two score reels - usually one relay for p1+p2 and another relay for p3+p4. Check and clean all contacts. Did player ones tens and hundreds unit turn when you played your first game? if so then it is just a bad connection to do with resets.

manually reset the score reels back to zero to make sure thats the only reason why the game is not starting anymore - most likely thats the only reason.

credit counter not moving might be part of the hack job someone did to get it to "free play". Sometimes people make a huge mess of things....

You sure "lifted rollovers" is a problem? from your last picture they look fine (cant zoom in though), the rollovers on those early williams were designed to just sit up above the playfield. If they are up too high, its as simple as just bending a metal leaf switch... under the playfield you will see that they are screwed directly onto a metal leaf switch, bend it down a bit to sink them into the playfield a bit more.

Your plastics may be filthy, but they dont look to be damaged, thats a real huge bonus :)
Just a note, in case you repeat my insanely stupid mistake... when you take off the top right large plastic, take note that there is one screw thats about half a centimeter shorter than the rest, I wasn't paying attention and didn't notice... and I put it back in the wrong spot... it took much longer than I'd like to admit for me to realise why my pop bumpers were constantly on - I had put a long screw in where the short one should be and it had gone through the playfield and held the pop bumper relay on.... so the lesson learnt is take note of exactly where each piece goes back on the playfield as some might have small variations...

The edges of a mylar stick out like a sore thumb, you would either have a build up of dirt at the edges or just run your finger over a suspected edge of the mylar and you should feel a large drop down to the playfield.

A working captive ball spinner is great! Those things are really annoying...

Brad
27th December 2017, 09:10 AM
This right here is gold @Brk_oth (https://www.aussiearcade.com/member.php?u=16071) It certainly helps a LOT that you've recently restored one of these


No need to worry about having not much experience with soldering, an EM is probably the best thing to practice on, as you dont need to be too accurate and it doesnt matter much if you make a mess - not like soldering components on a circuit board.

Yes I'm probably over-estimating the difficulty but I cannot convey enough how badly I solder LOL!


theres a relay in the back of the headbox that controls the reset of the two score reels - usually one relay for p1+p2 and another relay for p3+p4. Check and clean all contacts. Did player ones tens and hundreds unit turn when you played your first game? if so then it is just a bad connection to do with resets.

manually reset the score reels back to zero to make sure thats the only reason why the game is not starting anymore - most likely thats the only reason.

Yeah that's my guess. Players 1's, 10's resets it's just the hundreds and when I nudged it a bit it turned over for a bit than stopped again.



credit counter not moving might be part of the hack job someone did to get it to "free play". Sometimes people make a huge mess of things....

You might be right. At this stage I have no idea. I did note when lifting the playfield that at least 2 switches are wired shut. Haven't looked closely at why yet but I took photos.



You sure "lifted rollovers" is a problem? from your last picture they look fine (cant zoom in though), the rollovers on those early williams were designed to just sit up above the playfield. If they are up too high, its as simple as just bending a metal leaf switch... under the playfield you will see that they are screwed directly onto a metal leaf switch, bend it down a bit to sink them into the playfield a bit more.

Well these are pretty high and crooked so I suspect need at least a little adjustment :unsure


Your plastics may be filthy, but they dont look to be damaged, thats a real huge bonus :)
Just a note, in case you repeat my insanely stupid mistake... when you take off the top right large plastic, take note that there is one screw thats about half a centimeter shorter than the rest, I wasn't paying attention and didn't notice... and I put it back in the wrong spot... it took much longer than I'd like to admit for me to realise why my pop bumpers were constantly on - I had put a long screw in where the short one should be and it had gone through the playfield and held the pop bumper relay on.... so the lesson learnt is take note of exactly where each piece goes back on the playfield as some might have small variations...

LOL I'm bagging. labeling AND including before photos with everything I touch.



The edges of a mylar stick out like a sore thumb, you would either have a build up of dirt at the edges or just run your finger over a suspected edge of the mylar and you should feel a large drop down to the playfield.

I'll check it out but you can see a layer of plastic or something over it around the edges.


A working captive ball spinner is great! Those things are really annoying...

Yep it works fine, noisy as hell though lol

Thanks for the pointers =)

Brad

Gemini2544
27th December 2017, 10:27 AM
A little soldering tip on EM's, When soldering under the playfield I always lay an old towel over the base relays etc. Because a solder splash on the relay switch blades will really ruin your day.

ajfclark
27th December 2017, 10:32 AM
I think that's worth doing whenever you're under the playfield. Much easier to find a screw on a towel than under the motor.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

goodolddays
27th December 2017, 01:07 PM
defintely put a towel or an old sheet over the playboard in the bottom of the cab before doing any work on the playfield. This is a must

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Brad
27th December 2017, 02:00 PM
Some random shots looking over it yesterday

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_114921.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_114931.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_114936.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_114948.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_114951.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115000.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115007.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115135.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115140.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115144.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115158.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115202.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115210.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115219.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115222.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115228.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115241.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115255.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115326.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115337.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115407.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115411.jpg
http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/inside/20171226_115416.jpg

Random shots from all over. Notice the wired shut switches.

Brad

- - - Updated - - -

Okay legs are in their bath.

I managed to fit all 4 in there. FYI, 5 Litres of Evaporust JUST covered them. I was pouring away and got pretty concerned near the end :blink:

Gemini2544
27th December 2017, 02:08 PM
It's great to see an Arcader now so addicted to his first Pinball project. It was only a matter of time till you joined us on the darkside. :p

Autosteve
27th December 2017, 02:39 PM
It's great to see an Arcader now so addicted to his first Pinball project. It was only a matter of time till you joined us on the darkside. :p

Well after he poors all this time into it, it will be very hard to part with...(all part of the plan);)

Your switches wired shut are the end of stoke switches on the flippers. Absolutely necessary they work but yours are way dead, (that's why they are wired together)..

Don't bother tracking do the original replacement part as they got better over time in there quality.

Adapt these ones to fit. These are about as good as they got and they are cheap. Remember, you need 4....... 1 per flipper...

http://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/playfield-parts/flipper-parts/03-7811.html

I'd also replace the flipper cabinet switches with 80-90s model ones.

Doing these mods may take it away form being stock but you will have the best flippers and a lot more reliable.

Tungsten tipped contacts designed for 50 volt DC will handle your machine's 28volt AC flippers with ease plus they are cheap as chips and probably a whole heap easier to get.

Brk_oth
27th December 2017, 02:42 PM
Given that you've zoomed in on those terrible end of stroke switches that have been wired together, it seems like you had already guessed you have some work there.. they should not be wired together... you're going to need to buy flipper parts there.

Back to previous points...
Yes that looks like a mylar on the playfield... definitely obvious around the missing advance rollover in the photo showing the top of the playfield.
Those other 2 rollovers in the middle of the playfield are perfect. Nothing wrong there.

Brad
27th December 2017, 03:16 PM
I really appreciate all this feedback guys. Going to need all the help I can get LOL!

Like I've said before though, was always an EM guy just haven't been in the market for one. Now that I finally have my hands on one it would be tough to part with, especially with how much work I need to put into it.

Just test cleaned with Novus 1 on 2 spots. It comes up looking pretty good. I then tried it on a plastic it that came up really really nice :)

Okay put it back together to see what I could see.

Everything else here is cosmetic. It's time to delve into the dark art of EM maintenance :confused:

Machine will not finish its reset sequence.

Score Motor constantly turns as these two coils constantly fire. Any ideas at what I should be looking at.

Player 1 Score Reels will not reset. None of them move.

Autosteve
27th December 2017, 03:30 PM
Check for stuck tilt switches. There will be a few. Some machines have up to 5 tilt switches.

Ball roll, pendulum, slam on underside of playfield, slam on lower relay board and slam on front door.

Best to spread them apart so they won't "touch" while you are fixing it and adjusting for game play when you are finished with the maintenance.

Make sure there is a ball in the trough.

Try to identify what the relays are called. It would make it easier to look up in an online diagram then.

Brad
27th December 2017, 03:43 PM
LOL without doing anything other than lifting the playfield and checking for anything suspicious, I lowered it, fired it up and now instead of the usual startup sequence the roulette wheel starts spinning and won't stop.

Oh boy this is going to be fun

Brad

ajfclark
27th December 2017, 04:06 PM
If the machine won't reset, my first diagnostic is to manually reset the score reels to zero (by actuating the plungers, not turning the reels) and then see if it starts.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

Brk_oth
27th December 2017, 04:37 PM
LOL without doing anything other than lifting the playfield and checking for anything suspicious, I lowered it, fired it up and now instead of the usual startup sequence the roulette wheel starts spinning and won't stop.
Oh boy this is going to be fun
Brad

Does the outhole near the top of the playfield also fire every couple of seconds? That is the hole that a ball can fall into above the pop bumpers, it has writing around it that says spin wheel. If so, then its just the switch under it.

I had that issue with mine, the switch was stuck on, so if I powered up the machine the wheel would just start spinning non stop and couldn't get onto doing anything else.

It can be like this quite a lot with EM's, one step forward and then 10 steps backwards....

back to the original issue with it not resetting, as it has been mentioned a couple of times, you're best bet is to manually reset the score reels to double check there's no other issue preventing resets (highly unlikely though)... then you will know that the issue lies in some contacts being corroded or not touching OR it could be as simple as the score reels are stuck and need a really good clean.
the score motor turning and those 2 relays firing are doing exactly what they should be doing, so the problem lies between those relays and the score reels.

Brad
27th December 2017, 04:54 PM
Does the outhole near the top of the playfield also fire every couple of seconds? That is the hole that a ball can fall into above the pop bumpers, it has writing around it that says spin wheel. If so, then its just the switch under it.

I had that issue with mine, the switch was stuck on, so if I powered up the machine the wheel would just start spinning non stop and couldn't get onto doing anything else.

It can be like this quite a lot with EM's, one step forward and then 10 steps backwards....

back to the original issue with it not resetting, as it has been mentioned a couple of times, you're best bet is to manually reset the score reels to double check there's no other issue preventing resets (highly unlikely though)... then you will know that the issue lies in some contacts being corroded or not touching OR it could be as simple as the score reels are stuck and need a really good clean.
the score motor turning and those 2 relays firing are doing exactly what they should be doing, so the problem lies between those relays and the score reels.


Like ajfclark suggested I manually reset the reels for Player 1. By that I mean with it powered off I used a small screwdriver to press the plungers down until they went to zero. The 100's reel was jammed until I power cycled the machine again which I suspect shot power through it and loosened it.

The plunger on the 10's real is sticky, so when I depressed it sometime it wouldn't return. At least I know I have to work on that.

The spinner switch at the top was the first thing I checked BUT I didn't check underneath. Will report back shortly

Cheers,

Brad

- - - Updated - - -

Okay, hard to see with this photo but I cant see an issue with that switch. It's open and when I test push the top it closes. The coil under it for the kicker? is not randomly firing or anything.

Gemini2544
27th December 2017, 06:11 PM
Brad it might be time to consider soldering up those loom wires that you know are right. You will be flooded with intermittent problems due to every time you lift the play-field, it pulls & tugs, loosening all the wires that are just twisted together.

illawarra_steelers
27th December 2017, 08:50 PM
gotta love the 1st time you fire them up after being dead for decades.

you stand back waiting for either the nuclear bomb to go off..or nothing ;)

never nothing in between

ajfclark
28th December 2017, 07:28 AM
Okay, hard to see with this photo but I cant see an issue with that switch. It's open and when I test push the top it closes. The coil under it for the kicker? is not randomly firing or anything.
Looks good to me.

Brad
28th December 2017, 02:58 PM
Okay enough mucking around and time to get serious. Started tearing the cabinet down so I can clean, paint and then check components. I was a little surprised how easy it was. Thought it may have been a little more complicated than it was. Either way I took lots of pictures and labelled/bagged where appropriate.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_140813.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_141812.jpg

One thing in the image below. Where the playfield tilts up it rubs against the back of the cabinet and has scraped the paint away. Is there something I can do to stop that? Maybe some white felt or some type of adjustment?

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_143521.jpg

I've never seen a ball tilt before and I have to wonder why it's there when there is also a plumb bob tilt right below to it. It also might explain the extra smaller pinball that was sitting in the playfield :unsure

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_143644.jpg

With power I'm guessing that the two brown wires feeds power into the bottom unit, it doesn't matter what side they use? Either way I labelled them just in case.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_141238.jpg

All of the red and white labels stapled around the inside I'm going to reproduce new ones so that it looks like it just came out of the factory.

Nice to see the cab number matches the backbox number

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_140925.jpg

I need to take out the psu, buttons, and a couple of coils and I can then get down to tracing the cab before preparing it for painting.

One thing I noted up the back where there is a coil hitting a big bell is another near it that appears to just be hitting a metal angled plate? Is that a free game knocker or something?

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_140931.jpg

Well, still plenty more work to do.

Brad

ajfclark
28th December 2017, 03:16 PM
With power I'm guessing that the two brown wires feeds power into the bottom unit, it doesn't matter what side they use? Either way I labelled them just in case.
AC doesn't matter as much as with DC as the electricity is oscillating, not flowing. An oscillation doesn't have direction so things will work either way you hook them up. One of the few times it does matter is when adding a switch. Putting a switch anywhere in the circuit will work, putting it close to where the active comes in to the machine makes it safer. Switching both is better and allows power points and plugs to be miswired etc.

Is the metal box at the back a step down transformer? Did Williams not use 120v/240v adjustable transformers?


One thing I noted up the back where there is a coil hitting a big bell is another near it that appears to just be hitting a metal angled plate? Is that a free game knocker or something?
Yes that's the knocker. I think Q-bert had one in the cabinet for when he falls off...

goodolddays
28th December 2017, 03:17 PM
Okay enough mucking around and time to get serious. Started tearing the cabinet down so I can clean, paint and then check components. I was a little surprised how easy it was. Thought it may have been a little more complicated than it was. Either way I took lots of pictures and labelled/bagged where appropriate.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_140813.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_141812.jpg

One thing in the image below. Where the playfield tilts up it rubs against the back of the cabinet and has scraped the paint away. Is there something I can do to stop that? Maybe some white felt or some type of adjustment?

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_143521.jpg

I've never seen a ball tilt before and I have to wonder why it's there when there is also a plumb bob tilt right below to it. It also might explain the extra smaller pinball that was sitting in the playfield :unsure

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_143644.jpg

With power I'm guessing that the two brown wires feeds power into the bottom unit, it doesn't matter what side they use? Either way I labelled them just in case.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_141238.jpg

All of the red and white labels stapled around the inside I'm going to reproduce new ones so that it looks like it just came out of the factory.

Nice to see the cab number matches the backbox number

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_140925.jpg

I need to take out the psu, buttons, and a couple of coils and I can then get down to tracing the cab before preparing it for painting.

One thing I noted up the back where there is a coil hitting a big bell is another near it that appears to just be hitting a metal angled plate? Is that a free game knocker or something?

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabteardown/20171228_140931.jpg

Well, still plenty more work to do.

Brad
When u lift the playfield you need to pull it towards you a bit before lifting it up. You should see from the shape of the rails that there is a flat spot where the you need to slide the end to before lifting it up ... hard to explain but have a look at the rails it slides on inside the cab and you will see.

Cheers
Dave

Sent from my SM-A520F using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

illawarra_steelers
28th December 2017, 03:53 PM
all the labels should be here http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/

there are 3 different tilt systems in that game.

1. the blumb bob is the most common. shake the game too much and it connects to the ring and ends the ball
2. the ball on the rail. stops the player picking up the front of the game, smaller ball rolls forward pushes 2 contacts together, ends game
3. slam tilts. there will be one on the front door, playfield, lower cab and in the head. these will be either open or closed switches. once again to stop the player roughing up the game too much.

the ball to be used is 1 1/16"

been enjoying watching you do the above :)

Brad
28th December 2017, 05:06 PM
AC doesn't matter as much as with DC as the electricity is oscillating, not flowing. An oscillation doesn't have direction so things will work either way you hook them up. One of the few times it does matter is when adding a switch. Putting a switch anywhere in the circuit will work, putting it close to where the active comes in to the machine makes it safer. Switching both is better and allows power points and plugs to be miswired etc.

Is the metal box at the back a step down transformer? Did Williams not use 120v/240v adjustable transformers?


Yes that's the knocker. I think Q-bert had one in the cabinet for when he falls off...

Thanks for that. Yeah I keep calling it a PSU but I assume its actually a stepdown transformer. 240volt going in and most tof the rest appears to be 24 and 50 volt.

Yes QBert definitely had a knocker.

Cheers,

Brad

- - - Updated - - -


When u lift the playfield you need to pull it towards you a bit before lifting it up. You should see from the shape of the rails that there is a flat spot where the you need to slide the end to before lifting it up ... hard to explain but have a look at the rails it slides on inside the cab and you will see.

Cheers
Dave

Sent from my SM-A520F using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

No you explained it well but there is bugger all gap and you have to lift the playfield up about 1cm or more as there are 2 metal inserts that slot into the bit under the lockdown bar so I can't really drag it forward until after it's lifted. It rubs before then though not as bad as later when I can slide it forward.

Cheers,

Brad

- - - Updated - - -


all the labels should be here http://www.pinballrebel.com/pinball/cards/

there are 3 different tilt systems in that game.

1. the blumb bob is the most common. shake the game too much and it connects to the ring and ends the ball
2. the ball on the rail. stops the player picking up the front of the game, smaller ball rolls forward pushes 2 contacts together, ends game
3. slam tilts. there will be one on the front door, playfield, lower cab and in the head. these will be either open or closed switches. once again to stop the player roughing up the game too much.

the ball to be used is 1 1/16"

been enjoying watching you do the above :)

Thanks for the explanation. I managed to locate the coin door slam switch. The last finger is about 4mm think with rust lol. Think I found the playfield one, have not seen the head unit one though.

The ball tilt to me is interesting but it makes sense now. I would have though the plump bob would have been enough but its cool nonetheless.

Thanks for links to the labels though. I had no idea inkochnito's archive had those as well! What a resource

Cheers,

Brad

Brk_oth
28th December 2017, 05:20 PM
The spinner switch at the top was the first thing I checked BUT I didn't check underneath. Will report back shortly
- - - Updated - - -
Okay, hard to see with this photo but I cant see an issue with that switch. It's open and when I test push the top it closes. The coil under it for the kicker? is not randomly firing or anything.

Yeah that looks ok - although sometimes looks can sometimes be deceiving, for future reference try putting a bit of paper between contacts to double check.
Good to see that the most obvious part is out of the way, the next thing to look at would be the spin relay, check if its stuck on or if contacts not aligned properly... BUT given that you've now taken the machine apart there's no use going any further for now, hopefully when you put it back together it fixes itself.


Is the metal box at the back a step down transformer? Did Williams not use 120v/240v adjustable transformers?
Aftermarket step down transformer. So to me looks like it might be a US machine that was imported to Australia at some time many years ago.

Autosteve
28th December 2017, 05:20 PM
The tilts will look like these. If you can't find one, shake the machine and watch for what moves....

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4145/5031308748_a106cbe71f_o.jpg

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4AC8gUeEZrKSV96RDLseK4nSTr9XLH VomXM-UDF9HqVP_Bv6WSA

The one of the front door has the weight resting against the back face of the door meaning the weight will bounce off the door and strike the other contact usually resulting in the end of the "game" as does the ball roll tilt and often the cabinet slam tilt.

The remaining tilts....plumb bob etc usually only tilt a "ball"

This game and ball tilting is not guaranteed...It does vary and often adjustable.

ajfclark
28th December 2017, 06:34 PM
The roll tilt can also be set more sensitive to angle changes than the bob. This allows a loose bob (or for the bob to be bounced of the rod) but prevents someone putting ashtrays under the front legs.

The transformer that steps from 110v to 25v etc is at the end of those Brown wires, the large square lump of metal. Line voltage will go in to one winding and th voltages used (6v, 24v) will be on other secondary windings. Magnetic induction, yadda yadda.

millsy56
28th December 2017, 08:39 PM
Typical Williams transformer.

121765

Autosteve
28th December 2017, 09:34 PM
A couple of things I noticed looking through the A Go Go info on line..

As with all EMs only these guys took the time to stamp it on the diagram. Don't be surprised wire colours in your machine don't match the diagram. This happens a lot.

https://i.imgur.com/xnUI15R.jpg

Your tilt locations...

https://i.imgur.com/8z5GCJ5.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/tZKSPhk.jpg

According to the diagram, you have one tilt that will end the game on the front door they call "kick door switch" and it controls the lock relay. ( it is circled in yellow)

And four other tilts, the plumb bob, the ball tilt and two "shake tilts" and these all appear to work the tilt relay only meaning only ending the ball in play. Not unusual for multi player machines.

(these tilts are circled in blue)

https://i.imgur.com/RYDrNYb.jpg

Now something you need to be made well aware of.

This picture shows all the parts wired in on the "primary" side of the transformer. These parts all have MAINS voltage on them and not 24vAC like all the rest of the machine.

Learn these relays, switches etc because if you touch one of these parts while the machine is switched on while leaning over the side rail, you will get a boot and it will be mains voltage...

https://i.imgur.com/m5j720W.jpg

P.s..These A GO GO electrical diagrams are a treat to work with. They are so well laid out and easy to follow unlike many other EM diagrams I have had to work with.;)

Brad
29th December 2017, 07:44 AM
Thanks guys! Damn I'm learning a LOT going through this.

I found the playfield and door one, didn't notice the bottom one as it has a label on it called kick off switch. I was assuming kickoff but obviously it's kick and then off switch. That bottom panel is so damn dirty.

I know one of the first rules is not to go stupid cleaning them but is there something I can do about it without doing any damage?

As for wire colours I also have one of those notices stapled into the headbox. I tried reading those schematics as I got an original print in the service manual I found inside it and a PDF copy I sourced online. When originally looking to see why it no longer reset I looked at this area as a test matching it to a section in the headbox to if if I could follow the diagram and fortunately I could although I don't know about power and voltages yet so your warning is timely =)

121771

Cheers,

Brad

illawarra_steelers
29th December 2017, 03:04 PM
take the entire bottom board out - blast with the air compressor. while the board is out vacuum up the inside of the cab.

firstly i would inspect all the solder joints as over time they become brittle (especially williams).

so literally inspect by eye and pull on each wire.

look for any loose screws etc across the contacts (so will short out).

look at each relay and make sure there is a spring attached to each armiture

now the fun part - go through each switch stack and lighty clean each contact - tighten the switch stacks (wont tighten much)

as you do this manually open and close each relay, it becomes pretty easy to figure which switches should be open or closed.

also while you are there, also makes sure each contact blade is sitting inside the armature, as if somebody has dicked about with it previously they may be out of alignment.

yes you are right that you can go too far with this and most times you will find they are 1 step forward, 2 steps back.

it basically comes down to patience and logic.

Brad
30th December 2017, 11:46 AM
Don't forget leg day!

Okay Leg Update

LOL these have been sitting in the "leg restore station" for about 5 days or so. Thought I'd better check on them although Evaporust is non-corrosive. Result better than expected. Here is a side by side before and after comparison.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/legs/comparison.jpg

A couple of coats of paint came away with it! So do I prime then hammertone? Should I treat with anti-rust or something first?

I need new leg bolts and levelers. I had to persuade 3 of them to come off, no surprise there however I don't know my own strength ;)

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/legs/oops.jpg

I may need to drill this one out. It was not moving at all until it gave, got a few turns and then snap!

Cheers,

Brad

ajfclark
30th December 2017, 12:00 PM
One of my engineering friends recommends drilling a hole in the bolt then knocking in an Allen key.

Brad
30th December 2017, 12:18 PM
One of my engineering friends recommends drilling a hole in the bolt then knocking in an Allen key.

Good call. I was just going to drill a little smaller, then I could just use pliers to take the pieces out.

Brad

vintage
30th December 2017, 12:40 PM
.

wiredoug
30th December 2017, 12:43 PM
Penetrating oil in both sides then use vicegrips on thread to undo

this ^^ ( put leg in a vice first) .. seeing its a stud now, you can take it out the other way not have to wind it all through

Autosteve
30th December 2017, 01:12 PM
Nothing releases a locked up thread like heat but I wouldn't be to concerned about preserving the thread. It's really going to need a tap through it after you get it out anyway to reform the thread.

If you have no torch to get some heat into the bolt, you can use an angle grinder but don't push hard to cut, just lightly as it is the heat from the cutting process you want, not actually the cut.

While the angle grinder method won't get the bolt red hot, it will make getting that stud out a lot easier.

Brad
30th December 2017, 02:33 PM
Okay cabinet totally torn down and bare. What an epic pain in the arse getting those side rails off. Nails all rusty and not wanting to move but did it in the end. The siderails have lots of rust on them, not just spots, these are deep so have to go imo.

I haven't taken the score reel assembly out of the headbox yet. Think I'm going to attack each part separately. Undecided at the moment.

Next up, vacuum out 50 years of dust and crud, give it a good clean, then trace pattern, strip paint, sand, bog, sand, undercoat, sand, paint, sand, clearcoat ;)

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20171230_142038.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20171230_142043.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20171230_142046.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20171230_142052.jpg

Brad

illawarra_steelers
30th December 2017, 03:54 PM
colour match where the legs were for the blue and under where the lockdown bar mech was for the 'green' (or whatever it is ;) )

Brk_oth
30th December 2017, 04:15 PM
colour match where the legs were for the blue and under where the lockdown bar mech was for the 'green' (or whatever it is ;) )
Light blue, not green.. someone must have had this sitting without the lock down bar on it for a very long time...

Its the same light blue and dark blue used on all sides of the cabinet.

ajfclark
30th December 2017, 04:46 PM
Light blue, not green.. someone must have had this sitting without the lock down bar on it for a very long time...

Its the same light blue and dark blue used on all sides of the cabinet.

So all the light aqua was originally the same blue as under the door surround?

Brad
30th December 2017, 04:58 PM
Yeah there are only 3 colours on this cab and the pattern is nice and easy.
Check it out on ipbd: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=27&picno=27247

I'm going to use the colours that Millsy linked to in his initial response: https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/91465-Williams-A-Go-Go-1966 Post 4: http://pinballaustralia.com/missorestocabH.htm

The colour look pretty much identical or close enough I don't need to worry about it. Then I want to match those colours into the backglass restore I'm doing so that it blends in.

Cheers,

Brad

Brk_oth
30th December 2017, 05:54 PM
So all the light aqua was originally the same blue as under the door surround?
Yeah the light blue that was hidden behind the coin door surround.

Brad
1st January 2018, 11:59 AM
Okay paint supplies acquired. Update to the leg bolt issue.

I tried penetrating oil, I tried heat, I tried a grinder, I even ground flat spots on the end to try and unscrew it. Nothing, I repeat nothing worked. So I drilled that mofo out! Screw You ya $@#%#@ thing

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/legs/screwyou.jpg

I've traced the cabinet pattern AND applied measurements just to be sure. Legs have had undercoat applied. About to start applying paint stripper to the cabinet body. I also need to find a container big enough for the coin door to soak in

Brad

goodolddays
1st January 2018, 01:33 PM
you are really tearing through this resto Brad . I find I need to take a break every few days

Sent from my SM-A520F using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

Brad
1st January 2018, 01:47 PM
you are really tearing through this resto Brad . I find I need to take a break every few days

Sent from my SM-A520F using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

I've just started my second week of 3 weeks annual leave. Makes it a lot easier to spread the work out a little ;)

Brad

Gemini2544
1st January 2018, 03:04 PM
Brad if you need a large container for a few days, just use your house hold rubbish bin.

ajfclark
1st January 2018, 03:14 PM
For the coin door I did, I bought one of those flat shallow storage containers from Woolworths. Something like this except clear https://www.woolworths.com.au/shop/productdetails/429452/sistema-storage-container-green

Brad
1st January 2018, 04:36 PM
Oh no she's naked!

Stripped all the old paint. Still a bit but not too concerned as I'll be sanding ad 2 coats of undercoat before painting. Tonne of paint came away.

A word of advice.......when you drill a bolt out, sweep it up afterwards, I've been picking steel shavings out of my feet all afternoon :rolleyes

Time for a beer!

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/left.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/frot.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/right.jpg

Brad

illawarra_steelers
1st January 2018, 04:56 PM
always find it best to use an orbital sander (with good quality protection on the lungs, eyes and ears) do it outside.

maybe that would be the best way to finish her?

if you don't have an orbital sander ozito make ones you can't kill for less than $50 (though i'm a ryobi slut on all my power, petrol and battery tools)

as dave said above you are going great guns and i just wish more people would do the following:

* would document their resto's here
* pick up an em and give it a go
* even of one person is inspired to take one on after reading through this your job is done.

goodolddays
1st January 2018, 05:10 PM
I've just started my second week of 3 weeks annual leave. Makes it a lot easier to spread the work out a little ;)

Brad
I took 10 weeks leave about 6 years ago.. did 2 EM restos over that time but it burnt me out and I am still recovering lol

Sent from my SM-A520F using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

Brad
1st January 2018, 05:38 PM
always find it best to use an orbital sander (with good quality protection on the lungs, eyes and ears) do it outside.

maybe that would be the best way to finish her?

if you don't have an orbital sander ozito make ones you can't kill for less than $50 (though i'm a ryobi slut on all my power, petrol and battery tools)

as dave said above you are going great guns and i just wish more people would do the following:

* would document their resto's here
* pick up an em and give it a go
* even of one person is inspired to take one on after reading through this your job is done.


Are we long lost brothers? :D

Had this old girl for almost 20 years I reckon! She's done a LOT of work. Also definitely this is all outdoors work. Once the cab is painted its coming back inside.

Any of my projects I've always heavily documented here. For its a major part of the site so others can learn. Have to say though this is the largest project I've done!

Brad

Brad
2nd January 2018, 03:37 PM
I've been out most of the day doing holiday 'things' so only got to finish the legs today. They were primed yesterday and I let it set overnight.

Primed:

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/legs/primed.jpg

Hammertoned. Too much light in this photo so its hard to see and the paint was still really wet. It will darken.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/legs/hammertoned.jpg

Closeup after setting

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/legs/closeup.jpg

Side by side:

Original , After Evaporust, Primed, Hammertone

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/legs/comparisonfinal.jpg

Cheers,

Brad

illawarra_steelers
2nd January 2018, 04:20 PM
they came up awesome.

something will really make them pop is grab 4x chrome leg bolts that jeff Railways sells, though not sure he has them in stock atm.

Brad
2nd January 2018, 04:42 PM
I'm pretty happy with them as long as the rust stays away :)

I've been eyeing off Jeff's list as I need new siderails and was looking at the chrome leg bolts. My only concern is they would contrast too much with the silver hammertone. Anyone got photo examples I could see?

Cheers,

Brad

Railways
2nd January 2018, 04:47 PM
they came up awesome.

something will really make them pop is grab 4x chrome leg bolts that jeff Railways sells, though not sure he has them in stock atm.

Yes my good man, they are back in stock - I have about 100 and are $6 per bolt:)

- - - Updated - - -


I'm pretty happy with them as long as the rust stays away :)

I've been eyeing off Jeff's list as I need new siderails and was looking at the chrome leg bolts. My only concern is they would contrast too much with the silver hammertone. Anyone got photo examples I could see?

Cheers,

Brad

I'll be back in a minute;)

Brad
2nd January 2018, 05:16 PM
Thanks Jeff. As illawarra_steelers said they look great! The contrast is actually pretty good. Expect an order in the next day or so ;) Pretty sure you have the siderails I need too.

Cheers,

Brad

Railways
2nd January 2018, 05:22 PM
Thanks Jeff. As illawarra_steelers said they look great! The contrast is actually pretty good. Expect an order in the next day or so ;) Pretty sure you have the siderails I need too.

Cheers,

Brad

Thanks Brad. I'm not 100% sure about the rails as by memory we've never made any for an early Williams but fear not, Williams didn't vary their rail design a lot in the 60's, 70's, 80's.
Can you pm me some dimensions like overall length, height, flipper hole diameter and the X & Y co-ordinates of the centre of the flipper hole so I can cross reference.
Looking at IPDB it's a full length rail of about normal height. Thanks.

Brad
3rd January 2018, 11:19 AM
Coin door now getting a bath.

Found a crate that I have some Irish Stout aging in that fits the door with about 5mm to spare. After the legs I'm not concerned about the end result with the door BUT I have a question on the coin slot and surround.

Is there anyway to bring this back? I have some chrome spraypaint left over from a old project.

Cheers,

brad

122018122019122020

narf_
3rd January 2018, 11:29 AM
Maybe try autosol and fine steel wool first see how it polishes up?

Gemini2544
3rd January 2018, 11:37 AM
There is a weird technique by rubbing the surface with aluminum foil. It removes rust & brings back the shine. I've never done it but have heard of people using this method on chrome bumper bars & other metal work.

ajfclark
3rd January 2018, 11:47 AM
Al foil does work, but it's fairly labour intensive and does put fine scratches in the surface. Given the texture on that surround I'm not sure it'd work well.

If it's just a piece of metal I'd pop it in the evaporust.

Gemini2544
3rd January 2018, 12:10 PM
Al foil does work, but it's fairly labour intensive and does put fine scratches in the surface. Given the texture on that surround I'm not sure it'd work well.

If it's just a piece of metal I'd pop it in the evaporust.


What's an "Evaporust" Andrew?

ajfclark
3rd January 2018, 12:22 PM
What's an "Evaporust" Andrew?

Magic. 24 hour soak:
122023

It's relatively expensive (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Evapo-Rust-5-Litre/354058), but as long as it's kept in a sealed container, it lasts for ages. Very slightly acidic (pH 6.1) so it's a little easier to handle than some other products that use phosphoric acid (eg The MSDS for Ranex Rustbuster recommends medical attention in case of skin contact).

Brad
3rd January 2018, 01:09 PM
Yeah I think I'm going to throw it in. We'll see how it goes.

Cheers,

Brad

Brad
3rd January 2018, 02:44 PM
Headbox stripped ready for sanding.

Before:

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/before.jpg

After:

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/after.jpg

Found a LOT of these throughtout this:

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/headbox/guests.jpg

Brad

Gemini2544
3rd January 2018, 04:00 PM
When I did "Argosy" (an EM) for a customer that was dead for two decades, I had dead rats, Mice, Wasp nests & mud. Hey, I saved it..:o

illawarra_steelers
3rd January 2018, 04:29 PM
just before it slips my mind (looking at the above photo) when you come to clean the score reels be very careful - it doesn't take much for the ink to come straight off.
em_pins (i think) sells decals (or somebody did williams decals) for the reels.

ajfclark
3rd January 2018, 04:54 PM
Yup. I'd be careful even using water.

Weirdest thing I've heard people cleaning score reels with is crappy white bread as a really soft abrasive sponge. I can't vouch for it, but there's a thread on pinside somewhere.

Brad
3rd January 2018, 05:39 PM
Okay cab ready for undercoat! It's fair to say I've been ripping through this :redface

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180103_155207.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180103_155204.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180103_155504.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180103_155510.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180103_162211.jpg

now I shouldn't need to say this but for the sake of the documented journey I'll include it.

I started with P60 grit sanding disks and man it made the job so easy and FAST, BUT always finish with a finer grade. I finished with a 240 and it came up smooth as a babies bottom. See the difference in this image

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180103_155321.jpg

Massive difference and well worth it!

I was bummed as for some reason I only had two of the bevelled edges on the headbox face to go when my trusty Ryobi sander stopped holding sanding discs. I thought it might be clogged with dust cause DAMN I looked like a a yeti :lol but cleaning with a brush etc did not fix it :(

Something else to note is that @illawarra_steelers (https://www.aussiearcade.com/member.php?u=426) mentioned using an air compressor to clean the boards holding all the EM machinery. I don;t have an air compressor so as I was cleaning up after all that sanding I used my outdoor blower/vac and hit both top and bottom boards with it. The top score reel assembly came up a treat and the bottom isn't too bad. I'd consider this a win :D

Next up, filling before undercoating but that will probably wait as I need to do holiday things tomorrow ;)

Question do I use builders bog or gyprock filler. I've seen both suggestions.

Cheers,

Brad

Rob1966
3rd January 2018, 06:42 PM
I used both bog for the bigger holes and nicks and the filler for shallow long scratches


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Gemini2544
4th January 2018, 07:41 AM
For the light scratches I use Selley's Rapid Filler. It dries fast and is easy to sand down prior to under coating.

Brad
5th January 2018, 09:09 AM
Checked on my soaking Coin Door. This came up REALLY nice but I'm going to have to do something with it as in a few areas, especially the coin slot and bottom, that chrome plating is gone. They'll rust right up again real quick. The coin door, well its been 2 days and still rust on it. I think the Evaporust is losing its potency =(

Also after bogging the cab yesterday some ants have decided its their new home

illawarra_steelers
5th January 2018, 01:44 PM
why not do what you did with the legs? have just done 2 gottliebs that way will post up a photo later today.

Brad
5th January 2018, 03:14 PM
If I have to I will but I'd really like the chrome look if I can so that its closer to original. I have a part can of chrome spray paint here. I'll test a piece later and see how it looks.

2 Coats of undercoat done. Will let cure overnight then sand in preparation for re-paint



Cheers,

Brad

Gemini2544
5th January 2018, 05:19 PM
Finger in front of the lens....Really Brad..:lol

illawarra_steelers
5th January 2018, 05:25 PM
pretty sure they are stainless steel, not chrome.

Brad
5th January 2018, 05:40 PM
Finger in front of the lens....Really @Brad (https://www.aussiearcade.com/member.php?u=217)..:lol

LOL!

I know mate. I noticed when transferring and thought **** it. I'm too tired to care. Had a rotten nights sleep and been up since 4am.

Brad

- - - Updated - - -


pretty sure they are stainless steel, not chrome.

Yeah I kinda just realised that the coin door will be in hammertone. Would look weird chromed against that LOL!

illawarra_steelers
5th January 2018, 06:58 PM
this is one of my gottlieb doors done in hammertone

122174

millsy56
5th January 2018, 07:35 PM
If I have to I will but I'd really like the chrome look if I can so that its closer to original. I have a part can of chrome spray paint here. I'll test a piece later and see how it looks.

2 Coats of undercoat done. Will let cure overnight then sand in preparation for re-paint



Cheers,

Brad

Problem with liquid chrome - seems to stay soft and will pickup fingerprints. I found the liquid chrome good for areas that rarely get touched eg back glass surround that are always rusty ,agree with Tony,hammertone looks fine.

Brad
6th January 2018, 11:49 AM
First coat of Antique White - Sexy!

And this time Gemini2544 no finger :D

Question time again. Anyone know the size of the bolts to hold the headbox on. They're missing and fit into a threaded insert. I also need leg levelers. CAn you get these from Bunnings or are they specialty?

Cheers,

Brad

wiredoug
6th January 2018, 12:16 PM
First coat of Antique White - Sexy!

And this time Gemini2544 no finger :D

Question time again. Anyone know the size of the bolts to hold the headbox on. They're missing and fit into a threaded insert. I also need leg levelers. CAn you get these from Bunnings or are they specialty?

Cheers,

Brad

head will be 3/8 bolts from bunnings, buy long enough to make it...

feet here - http://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/08-7377.html

nuts for the feet 3/8 at bunnings or here - http://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/4422-01117-00.html

while you're just working on it you can put 3/8 bolts in where the feet would go too if you want

Autosteve
6th January 2018, 07:42 PM
head will be 3/8 bolts from bunnings, buy long enough to make it...

feet here - http://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/08-7377.html

nuts for the feet 3/8 at bunnings or here - http://www.pinballspareparts.com.au/4422-01117-00.html

while you're just working on it you can put 3/8 bolts in where the feet would go too if you want

3/8" UNC (American)

not

3/8" Whitworth (English)

They are slightly different threads......(turns per inch and pitch of thread)

Bunnings have both.

Take an old leg bolt with you as a sample for the thread, not the length .(long enough to go through the wood at the bottom of the head with a 3/8 washer and fully into the wood with the thread in the of the neck)

If the neck bolt threaded inserts are damaged, they are called "tee nuts" and they are in the table legs section of Bunnings in packs of four for a table with four legs or a pinball neck but again beware, they are in UNC and Whitworth thread sizes.

wiredoug
6th January 2018, 07:44 PM
dont overthink it steve .. its the ones in the HUGE common bolts bay, not the single packet by itself hiding in the special stuff

Autosteve
6th January 2018, 09:06 PM
dont overthink it steve .. its the ones in the HUGE common bolts bay, not the single packet by itself hiding in the special stuff

Sorry wiredoug

A life of dealing with idiots has taught me to be very precise so F ups don't happen and things go according to plan.

Many people have no idea 3/8" comes in many threads and all are different, most are completely incompatible with each other or at best damage the thread forcing it to fit and Whitworth is by far the most popular used in Australia, not UNC or UNF unless it is an Auto shop where you will only find UNC and UNF as a hold over from when Aussie cars were US sizes before metric.

For those that are possibly interested these are the Imperial threads I am aware of and I'm sure there are more...

BSW....British Standard Whitworth
BSWP...British Standard Whitworth Pipe
UNC....Unified Course
UNF....Unified Fine

Again, just for those that may actually be interested, usually those that are always fixing many pieces of machinery like myself, this is just the differences in the thread itself and not how many threads per inch or the pitch of the thread that also changes...

https://www.moorepants.info/jkm/courses/eng4/lectures/media/lecture16/thread-types.png

So next time you have a bolt that just doesn't seem right or goes a bit and then gets tight or jams, hopefully you will remember back to this post and think, maybe I have the wrong bolt thread even though I have the right thread size.;)

Sorry wiredoug and Brad

A bit off track but forums are for helping and teaching aren't they?. Maybe someone will learn from this and help them later on.

wiredoug
6th January 2018, 09:14 PM
Maybe someone will learn from this and help them later on.

of course they will its awesome. I love it when you get carried away lol .....

a lifetime of idiots .. sigh .. the struggle is real aint it

Brad
7th January 2018, 06:55 AM
Hey this whole thread is about learning things, chiefly me but I'm documenting heavily in case anyone else can learn from it. The more info in here the better in my opinion so ANY input is appreciated and welcome =)

Personally I only ever knew about Whitworth and UNC so something else I've picked up!

Cheers,

Brad

Gemini2544
7th January 2018, 01:44 PM
Brad you left out American Milspec for aviation, also imperial.

Brad
8th January 2018, 09:54 AM
Bet you thought I'd slacked off ;)

I spent most of yesterday getting drunk at Netherworld's 1st birthday party and more in the city so not a lot happened except working on the coin door. (Note I didn't win the X-File pinball Machine)

Here is the extremely sorry state of the door as I got it. A LOT of pitted rust on it which is a shame

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/coindoorbefore.jpg

I soaked this in Evaporust for 3 days and it came out looking like this

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/coindoorevaporust.jpg

I forgot to take a photo of the door after I'd cleaned and then primed it but you guys have seen primed metal before. Either way I hammertoned it this morning and despite the pitting the hammertone has complemented it nicely in my opinion. It doesn't show up very well in this photo but the closeup shows how well it looks.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/coindoorhammertone.jpg

Closeup shot

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/coindoorhammertoneclose.jpg

I'll need to order the repro labels that illawarra_steelers linked to earlier in this monster thread. The back of the coin door I've currently left in primer. It was pristine and I don't think it needs to be hammertoned, I just wanted to stave off any rust coming in.

A shot of before I did anything. Forgot to take pictures of the back once cleaned and primed. I'll replace those labels as well.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/coindoorbackbefore.jpg

Now the coin slot itself appeared to be chromed but it has rust creeping in and was also pitted.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/coinslotbefore.jpg

After Evaporust. Note the chrome coming away inside the slot. This was also on the top and bottom.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/coinslotevaporust.jpg

I had some Chrome Spraypaint left over from a previous project so I thought I'd give it a go.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/coinslotafter.jpg

I think it came up super nice and will wait and see how it goes regarding millsy56 advice on that chrome paint.

Currently transferring measurements for the dark blue cabinet paint. What a pain in the bum that is LOL. Made MUCH easier with illawarra_steelers tracing paper donation :)

Cheers,

Brad

BIG Trev
8th January 2018, 10:28 AM
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought primer was porous and will rust through if a top coat is not applied? Might be something to think about on the back of your coin door?
Maybe just put a coat of clear over it.
Keep up the great work.
Cheers Trev

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Brad
8th January 2018, 11:42 AM
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought primer was porous and will rust through if a top coat is not applied? Might be something to think about on the back of your coin door?
Maybe just put a coat of clear over it.
Keep up the great work.
Cheers Trev

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

You raise an interesting point Trev. I have no idea to be honest :unsure but if so I'll definitely need to paint it with something. Looks like I might need another tin of hammertone.

Oh in my previous post I forgot to say that dumbarse me left out the coin door surrounds when soaking so now they're having a bath along with lockdown bar mech and glass end holder pieces :rolleyes++

BTW here is a photo of the back now that its dry



Cheers,
Brad

Autosteve
8th January 2018, 01:22 PM
Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but I always thought primer was porous and will rust through if a top coat is not applied? Might be something to think about on the back of your coin door?
Maybe just put a coat of clear over it.
Keep up the great work.
Cheers Trev

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

You are correct BIG Trev

It is porous. One reason you never buy a 2nd hand car done in primer only. You don't know how many times it was in the rain and also primer covers the non flat panels.

The metal doesn't need to get wet either. Moisture in the air will cause rust anyway.

To be absolutely correct paint is porous as well and that is why car paint should have wax applied over the paint to seal it but this is far less necessary these days. Cars are basically throw aways these days not expected to live long lives.

If you like your inside front door finish Brad as it is and and concerned about rust maybe a light wax coat?.

Brad
10th January 2018, 03:51 PM
Update time.

Its fair to say I'm disappointed. I spent a LOT of time transferring dimensions and patterns to the entire cab, then using painters tape, masked it all out. 3 coats of the dark blue later and I start taking the tape off.

I have severe bleed over every single line. A smart man would have tested a section before proceeding :cry The photo makes it look better than it really is and I HAD bought proper painters tape too.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/darkblue.jpg

Furthermore, remember that gunk on the headbox that made it really easy to scrape the paint off?

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20171216_140253.jpg

It was some type of oil based product maybe brake fluid or something which I knew was going to cause me problems with paint adhesion so I ensured I bought a 4-1 undercoat. No amount of sanding was getting rid of it as it has soaked deeply into the wood.

Well the undercoat did its job and the Antiuqr White and then Dark Blue coated nicely. However the undercoat could not bond to the timber it seems

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180110_153301.jpg

This photo shows how bad the bleed it. Not sure what I'm going to do now as I'm a little disheartened.

The only good bit of news I have is that I bought some Silver Zinc paint to coat the back of the coin door. I thik it came up really nice.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/silverzinc.jpg

Brad

Autosteve
10th January 2018, 04:29 PM
Damm.

I must admit I was a bit concerned about using paint stripper on wood.

Might have to clad the wood in 3mm ply. I don't like your chances getting that paint stripper out of the wood to tell you the truth.

You could try sanding or peeling it back and use shit loads of metho and cloth to leach it out of the wood.

I had success doing the metho trick on wood that kept leaching out the tannins. As the tannins and paint stripper are both oil based to a degree, the metho may pull the stripper out of the wood.

I found this....


Re: Removing stripper residue?

Postby asiedydd Ľ Sun Mar 15, 2009 9:59 pm
The topic/question should read "Removing PAINTstripper residue?"

I've cleaned water based stripper with TSP solution. Oil based with mineral spirits or naptha. Parks/Zinsser makes "Stripper Wash", which I think is probably a mix of ethanol, methanol and acetate. I endorse the suggestion for using steel wool before sandpaper.

It is part of this here....

http://www.oldhouseweb.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19240

Brad
10th January 2018, 04:34 PM
No its not paint stripper well maybe it is but not mine. I used stripper all over the cab and no issue. I also washed it down gently with clean cloths and water, then let it dry for a few days before undercoating. The cab came with this leeched into it whatever it is. Someone had rested a container of something on it in this spot and it'd leeched into the wood. Paint is fine everywhere else.

That photo of me scraping stuff off is before I'd touched the cab with anything. Every dark spot there is where whatever liquid was spilled on it had soaked in.

Brad

illawarra_steelers
10th January 2018, 04:56 PM
okay..sorry mate maybe i should of thought ahead and posted. haven't been on much as im spending 12+ hours a day painting the house and getting ready for the meet.

with the bleeding. sad to say you are going have to sand back to primer again.

to get around this the next time the tape goes down press it firmly all away around the edge.

once that is done, take the base white paint and apply a thin layer of paint on the edge of the tape (to seal the gap).

let it dry a few hours.

sorry skimmed over above (cooking dinner) but once the colours go down leave for at least 24 hours until you take the tape up.

feel your pain mate, put it down to a learning experience

illawarra_steelers
10th January 2018, 06:39 PM
just to add, yeah i have had this happen before and it totally leaves you rejected. mate, i f*cked a cab TWICE and started again.

maybe move onto something else for now?

start to go through the score reel assemblies - it will make the painting headaches go away ;)

Autosteve
10th January 2018, 06:59 PM
okay..sorry mate maybe i should of thought ahead and posted. haven't been on much as im spending 12+ hours a day painting the house and getting ready for the meet.

with the bleeding. sad to say you are going have to sand back to primer again.

to get around this the next time the tape goes down press it firmly all away around the edge.

once that is done, take the base white paint and apply a thin layer of paint on the edge of the tape (to seal the gap).

let it dry a few hours.

sorry skimmed over above (cooking dinner) but once the colours go down leave for at least 24 hours until you take the tape up.

feel your pain mate, put it down to a learning experience

I'll hold you totally responsible if Brad turns out a absolutely immaculate A Go Go with a bare wooden cabinet.:lol

illawarra_steelers
10th January 2018, 07:28 PM
also what type of paint was it? was it water based acrylic?

Railways
10th January 2018, 07:33 PM
Bummer about the bleeding and priming Brad. I too have had to do a cab twice but since I've started using 2 coats of Zinsser 1-2-3 as an undercoat I've never had a problem. Available at Bunnings. Link from rustoleum below.

https://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/consumer-brands/zinsser/primer-sealers/bulls-eye-1-2-3-water-base-primer

Re; The bleeding. You will get bleeding if the primer hasn't been block ed back to as close as possible to dead flat. I.e the undercoat or any top colour when applied with a fairly coarse roller will leave lots of little hills and dales which the tape won't fill as the tape just sticks to the high points and lets paint run underneath.
I use a fine sponge roller - not mohair/fuzz.

millsy56
10th January 2018, 08:16 PM
How did the backbox come up - any bleed ?
Dont be too disenchanted -happens to all of us, critical the tape is stuck well on your lines. Did you roller along the tape line,I usually use a small brush to make sure the line is nicely sealed
After paint stripping I usually clean with either prepsol or wax remover. And dont forget the weather (High humidity) will take longer to dry. I usually do 3 coats of sealer/undercoat and finally peel the tape of VERY SLOWLY.

Brad
10th January 2018, 08:20 PM
LOL you clowns! I really AM tempted for that sweet smooth timber look now :lol

I used Taubmans 3-1 Primer with Stain Blocking. Did 2 coats and sanded after both.

http://www.taubmans.com.au/paints/taubmans-3-in-1

For the colours I used the paints linked by Millsy


All Dulux Aqua Enamel.

Also use a foam roller per recommendations. I think its really just down to shitty technique. I should have read more instead of diving right in. Still considering options. Going to try your method illawarra_steelers but on the existing by taking the blue out a little more to cover the bleed. Will test a small section and see how I go. Worst case scenario it doesn't work and I break out the sander again :cry

You're right though, pretty dejected at the moment and want to move to something else. I'll sleep on it ;)

Just got your post millsy. Backbox exactly the same mate.

Cheers,

Brad

Brk_oth
10th January 2018, 08:39 PM
Don't be too upset, most EM's originally had quite a lot of paint bleed from spraying the stencils at factory... Personally I think the sides look brilliant, the front though I'd prefer to repaint if it were me (and of course redo the backbox).
One thing, in the pics it looks like your white is solid white? The game should have a splatter effect, lots of tiny dots over the white. This is usually done before the other colours are added.

Brad
10th January 2018, 08:45 PM
Don't be too upset, most EM's originally had quite a lot of paint bleed from spraying the stencils at factory... Personally I think the sides look brilliant, the front though I'd prefer to repaint if it were me (and of course redo the backbox).
One thing, in the pics it looks like your white is solid white? The game should have a splatter effect, lots of tiny dots over the white. This is usually done before the other colours are added.

No honestly the sides are as bad as the front, the photo makes it look nice =(

Yeah the base is Antique White. I never saw any reference images that showed a splatter effect! What colours were used.....omg I may HAVE to sand it back now

Brad

Brk_oth
10th January 2018, 09:28 PM
No honestly the sides are as bad as the front, the photo makes it look nice =(
Yeah the base is Antique White. I never saw any reference images that showed a splatter effect! What colours were used.....omg I may HAVE to sand it back now
Brad

From a photo from a distance you probably wouldn't notice the splatter, so highly unlikely any of the online photos showed it up close.
Its one of those things that you don't really realise is there, until its not there...

Looks to be a medium grey (if I were programming I'd call it similar to hex colour value of #999999 or up to #BBBBBB .... but that might not be too much use to you.... ) ...... I'll see if I can get the time to get a decent photo tomorrow...

millsy56
10th January 2018, 09:46 PM
LOL you clowns! I really AM tempted for that sweet smooth timber look now :lol

I used Taubmans 3-1 Primer with Stain Blocking. Did 2 coats and sanded after both.

http://www.taubmans.com.au/paints/taubmans-3-in-1

For the colours I used the paints linked by Millsy


All Dulux Aqua Enamel.

Also use a foam roller per recommendations. I think its really just down to shitty technique. I should have read more instead of diving right in. Still considering options. Going to try your method illawarra_steelers but on the existing by taking the blue out a little more to cover the bleed. Will test a small section and see how I go. Worst case scenario it doesn't work and I break out the sander again :cry

You're right though, pretty dejected at the moment and want to move to something else. I'll sleep on it ;)

Just got your post millsy. Backbox exactly the same mate.

Cheers,

Brad

Redo the Backbox first and see how it comes up. Less pain if your not happy with it.

goodolddays
11th January 2018, 05:40 AM
I too feel your pain re paint bleed, Brad.

I haven't had a problem since painting over the edge of the tape in either the base colour or undercoat .

I have never bothered with doing the splatter effect on any cabs I have repainted . Easier that way and I don't care about it anyway :)

Keep up the great work.

Rob1966
11th January 2018, 06:09 AM
I must have been lucky my first attempt to paint a cab come up better than I expected, but I really slowed thing down and did everything methodically it actually took me a couple of hours to tape up everything I pressed hard on the tape edges to get the best seal as I could and like others have said dip your finger in some of the paint colour that is the colour under the tape and run your finger over the tape lines where you are going to paint, let it dry this helps seal things up and I think very importantly make sure you donít have to much paint on the roller less chance of bleeding do more coats if you have to but donít overload the roller.
Good luck


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

illawarra_steelers
11th January 2018, 08:13 AM
think the cab should take the longest out of all the resto.

i always set 4 weeks to do it. only reason is if you rush (and not putting shit on you brad) the results show.

can understand your disappointed - as stated above i f*cked my gottlieb egg head not once but twice.

why? as both times it was a rushed job trying to get it done.

all up an em rebuild like this should take a min of 6 months.

dont get put off, think kev's suggestion of just doing the head by itself is a great idea.

Gemini2544
11th January 2018, 05:18 PM
I had a have a bitch here thread about Blue masking tape that stuffed up my house painting.

https://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/91510-Ffffing-painters-masking-tape-1

Brad
20th January 2018, 08:37 AM
Well after a flurry of posts on this restore it was back to reality with work =( I can only really work on this on weekends or days off and my glorious 3 weeks leave was over this week so not a lot done. I spent last weekend talking myself into realising I just have to sand back the cab and start all over again. I'm reasonably comfortable with that now though still disappointed. As others have said put it down to a lesson =/

I have been doing a little work. Namely taking cab parts out of the evaporust and then cleaning and painting. all coin door parts have now received primer and either hammertone or zinc where appropriate. I've also done the backbox metal pieces and the playfield glass holders at the back. I have a few chrome pieces that have rust through to the metal namely siderails and 2 pieces of playfield glass holders. @Railways (https://www.aussiearcade.com/member.php?u=893) is going to sort me out with siderails when he can and considering what to do with the other few pieces.

Since I was back at work I thought I'd revisit my backglass artwork restore. I'd done a LOT of work on it during my first week then left it as I wanted to test print to see if I needed to do more or if my re-work was shit. So I printed out a full size version on our banner printer at work and then put it side by side to the original glass. You can see this below.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/backglass/2048.jpg

Now in this photo it looks washed out but that's because of the really bright morning sun. The colours are MUCH brighter and distinct in person and I'm very pleased with the result. I do need to tweak colour shading as I think they're slightly off BUT as in the tutorial I posted I can mass-select each colour and tweak at will with no issue.

It's hard to see in this reduced size image but a lot of the black lines are a little jaggy, not from pixelation but from the line anchors being a little off in some areas. I was considering cleaning them up but as the marketing guys said to which I agreed, it kinda suits the theme and age/style of the cab so I may leave it. I still need to create the numbers along the top and I also noticed the number 4 at the bottom is still not great. I had to re-create most of the text in the bottom left but I cheated and used copies from the "Play Flipper" section at the bottom by copying, resizing and changing the colour.

I'm also going to hunt around for the Williams Logo and Text on the top left as whilst its not bad I'd like a crisper result.

All up I'm happy with the work with some tweaks to go and I think the final result will be pretty good.

Cheers,

Brad

Autosteve
20th January 2018, 11:43 AM
I think it looks outstanding myself Brad .

One thing I would try is putting a lit lightbulb behind the Game over, SPSA, and ball in play numbers just to make sure the transparency allows for the light to pass though correctly so you can easierly see them when they are lit on the machine.

Brad
20th January 2018, 01:22 PM
I think it looks outstanding myself @Brad (https://www.aussiearcade.com/member.php?u=217) .

One thing I would try is putting a lit lightbulb behind the Game over, SPSA, and ball in play numbers just to make sure the transparency allows for the light to pass though correctly so you can easierly see them when they are lit on the machine.

This is a just a test print on some high gloss paper. The real print will be onto some acrylic or glass. Those light up areas will need to be either close to transparent or lightly printed, maybe a gradient of some type. But you're right, this is a small concern of mine. Just something I can't test with the test medium I've used. I'll need to discuss/tweak with the professional printer =)

Cheers,

Brad

Autosteve
20th January 2018, 02:14 PM
This is a just a test print on some high gloss paper. The real print will be onto some acrylic or glass. Those light up areas will need to be either close to transparent or lightly printed, maybe a gradient of some type. But you're right, this is a small concern of mine. Just something I can't test with the test medium I've used. I'll need to discuss/tweak with the professional printer =)

Cheers,

Brad

That part of the glass is defiantly painted differently on a normal back glass that is why I mentioned it.

Brad
20th January 2018, 02:20 PM
That part of the glass is defiantly painted differently on a normal back glass that is why I mentioned it.

For sure. It seems like a thinner coat of the same surrounding colour so the light shines through.


Edi: Actually on closer inspection, the rest of the glass has been backed with another colour or medium blocking it out. The light up areas don't have this so thats how it works.


Brad

Brk_oth
27th January 2018, 04:23 PM
No honestly the sides are as bad as the front, the photo makes it look nice =(
Yeah the base is Antique White. I never saw any reference images that showed a splatter effect! What colours were used.....omg I may HAVE to sand it back now
Brad

Tapatalk on my phone kept refusing to upload a photo....... and I kept forgetting to plug phone into my computer to get the image..... so sorry for the delay.
Here's the splatter on A-Go-Go (mixed in with some marks from old age :P )
123102

Brad
28th January 2018, 10:47 AM
Quick questions. Do you guys paint the inside of your cabs? I wasn't going to but now not sure and if I'm going to do it I should before I put it back together. About to sand the new coat of primer and lay down Antique White again.

For the oil/stain blocking I've applied this product as recommended by a builder mate. We'll see how it holds up soon :blink:

https://www.bunnings.com.au/zinsser-b-i-n-3-78l-primer-sealer-stain-killer_p1565677

Cheers,
Brad

millsy56
28th January 2018, 10:52 AM
Good thing to do especially above the playfield line of eye.

Gemini2544
28th January 2018, 10:53 AM
Some do Brad, some paint it black & some choose the most dominate colour. Just keep in mind that the manufacture didn't do it so if you going for authenticity then I wouldn't.

Brad
28th January 2018, 11:05 AM
Good thing to do especially above the playfield line of eye.

I've already done above the playfield but stopped short of the rest.


Some do Brad, some paint it black & some choose the most dominate colour. Just keep in mind that the manufacture didn't do it so if you going for authenticity then I wouldn't.

Yeah this is where I'm a little torn. I like the neatness of it but I also want to retain as much of the original charm as possible if that's even really relevant. One of the things I like is the outside bottom of the cab has the Serial Number written on it. Not sure I want to paint over it or not. I know it seems silly but I can't help myself lol

Brad

illawarra_steelers
28th January 2018, 01:12 PM
Good thing to do especially above the playfield line of eye.

agree. dont go nuts. just what kev suggested here

thejudge
28th January 2018, 01:21 PM
Quick questions. Do you guys paint the inside of your cabs?

I normally just go to below the eye line of the playfield, but when I have mouse crap stained wood, I at least undercoat it all.

Brad
1st February 2018, 10:03 AM
Apparently Pinball Rescue no longer sell Williams and Bally Trademarked parts and haven't done for at least 6 months. I was after the coin door decals:

http://www.pinballrescue.net/Decals_Coin_Door.html

I've searched high and low and cannot find a provider except for one who won't ship outside the U.S. Does anyone know of someone who might sell them? I get protecting your trademark but if you're not selling them I find it a bit shit. I know an old and long argument but I've personally never had the issue before =/

Brad

illawarra_steelers
1st February 2018, 10:28 AM
pm sent

have a spare set mate

Brad
4th February 2018, 12:11 PM
Only a small update this time although plenty of work. Sanded back the cab to almost base. 3 coats of undercoat. I let it bake for a week then sanded with a finisher. Applied 2 coats of antique white today. Will let that bake for a week and then finish it and prep for dark blue next weekend.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/redo2.jpg

Backbox is hiding behind the cab but it got the treatment too. I checked the area where paint was not adhereing and so far it looks pretty good. Only taping and removing will prove the point though.

Brad

Gemini2544
4th February 2018, 12:22 PM
I hope when you spray the colours that after all that work it doesn't run of bleed under the tape on it.

Brad
4th February 2018, 12:49 PM
I hope when you spray the colours that after all that work it doesn't run of bleed under the tape on it.

You mean like last time? I'll be doing the backbox first and using the methods recommended here. Should be fine now that I know. My chief concern is ensuring the paint doesn't come off when I'm taking the tape off.

Brad

Gemini2544
4th February 2018, 03:26 PM
My chief concern is ensuring the paint doesn't come off when I'm taking the tape off.

Brad

Been there!:realmad:

Brad
10th February 2018, 10:50 AM
Quick question. I'm looking at marking out the pattern for taping today but before I do, should I lightly sand the Antique White first or leave it? The undercoat was sanded nice and smooth before Antique White was applied.

Cheers,

Brad

illawarra_steelers
10th February 2018, 11:35 AM
would just leave it mate

Rob1966
10th February 2018, 11:37 AM
You just bet me to it I was about to say the same thing.

Iím going to be honest when I did my cabinet I didnít do any sanding between coats and I did multiple coats and had no bleeding through the tape when I did the stenciling.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Brad
18th February 2018, 12:19 PM
Put a final dark blue coat on this morning before just peeling the tape off just now. Have to say I'm very happy with the result. A couple of spots will require a small touch up where my taping wasn't 100% but all up I think it looks fantastic.

Just want to thank you all for your tips, help and encouragement :)

FYI, the area where the paint is not adhering is still a problem. I was Very careful peeling that up and whilst lifting the tape was using my other hand to hold the paint layer down. The only way this will be truly fixed is to replace the timber or lay a veneer over it and paint that.

Going to let this bake for a week before I tape it up to do the light blue. Then I need to do 2 areas of black before some light touch ups!

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/darkbluefront.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/rightsidedbluef.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/rightsidedblue.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/backbox.jpg

Cheers

Brad

illawarra_steelers
18th February 2018, 01:15 PM
awesome! high 5 from bulli :)

goodolddays
18th February 2018, 01:30 PM
Looks excellent Brad . Well done :cool:

Brad
18th February 2018, 01:38 PM
Thanks guys!

One other thing. Only small but thought I'd post out of interest.

The coin slot has an acrylic window where coin instructions are usually displayed. This is back-lit by an incandescent bulb which I'll replace with an LED (Should see those delivered tomorrow).

Now this machine was built in early 1966. I wanted to know what would be displayed and searched a bit but couldn't find any real info. Initially I though it'd be imperial coinage but Australia switched to decimal currency in 1966 and we would not have seen these machines here until just after that. So inspired by a single google image I found from a U.S. machine I replicated the label in Adobe Illustrator and changed the values for Australian currency. Not sure what the costs would have been but research says that we started seeing 20cents per game in maybe the very late 60's for some but usually in the 70's so I set it for 20cents for 3 games or 10cents for game. If someone has more accurate info or even a proper label shout out :)

Also to be a little pedantic, I researched the common fonts used in the 60's and chose Futura which was hugely popular on album covers at the time.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/coininsert.jpg

Cheers,

Brad

illawarra_steelers
18th February 2018, 01:45 PM
perfect mate, they would of been that coin denominations and were to around 1975 or so.

millsy56
18th February 2018, 01:55 PM
Great Job - Looks perfect :023::023:

Autosteve
18th February 2018, 04:03 PM
I think you have the layout wrong myself but it is up to you.

Here are a couple from around that era as examples.

I never saw a multi coin machine from that era but I can only imagine the display windows would have used the traditional Williams layout and colours these original Williams display windows use as in 10cents being yellow and 20 cents being burnt orange....

https://i.imgur.com/VGKGQmD.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/hP37FVC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/RMmbCNK.jpg

Sorry about the picture quality. They were an arse to photograph for some reason.

Brad
18th February 2018, 04:26 PM
No the pictures are fine. Look you may be right, I have no idea but every reference image I could find didn't look anything like the ones you've posted. I'm also not sure if this coin mech slot is very standard and it was originally designed to take multiple coin types. Maybe they made them different looking? :unsure

Now a couple of reference images although VERY hard to see are from restorations so we can't be 100% that they're correct. See here

https://www.pinball-restorations.com/product/williams-a-go-go/

http://www.pinballrebel.com/game/pins/a_go_go/a_go_go_pinball.htm

However IF you look at the original flyer or what I assume is the original flyer check this out. Again hard to see.

Red Flyer

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/redflyer.jpg

Zoomed

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/redzoom.jpg

Black and White Flyer

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/bwflyer.jpg

Zoomed

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/bwzoom.jpg

I think my design is pretty close, the colours...not sure but I'd be VERY surprised if they used oranges and reds :unsure

Cheers,

Brad

millsy56
18th February 2018, 04:36 PM
124310
I have some scans of aussie currency somewhere if you want them.

Brk_oth
18th February 2018, 04:54 PM
I think you have the layout wrong myself but it is up to you.

Here are a couple from around that era as examples.

I never saw a multi coin machine from that era but I can only imagine the display windows would have used the traditional Williams layout and colours these original Williams display windows use as in 10cents being yellow and 20 cents being burnt orange....


The multi coin mech coin chutes used a different style for the display window.
He has it correct - or at least as close as it can be because none came to Aus, it was only USA and Europe with the multi coin mechs.
I've got both a German and US one..... somewhere :S
But what he has made looks like them, to the best of my memory..


edit:
I had a look but couldn't find them...
heres a US one found online, the German one actually takes 3 types of coins, the 3 background colours on the German one matches the cabinet colours (if I remember correctly)..... US one is just the light blue from the cabinet.
124318

Autosteve
18th February 2018, 05:13 PM
The multi coin mech coin chutes used a different style for the display window.
He has it correct - or at least as close as it can be because none came to Aus, it was only USA and Europe with the multi coin mechs.
I've got both a German and US one..... somewhere :S
But what he has made looks like them, to the best of my memory..


edit:
I had a look but couldn't find them...
heres a US one found online, the German one actually takes 3 types of coins, the 3 background colours on the German one matches the cabinet colours (if I remember correctly)..... US one is just the light blue from the cabinet.
124318

https://i.imgur.com/M0OfnIk.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/0sndNV3.jpg


I just think a bit of colour would look better myself but that might just be me.

Those pictures are from the 1966 Williams catalog and the next catalog was 1969 with no mention of the multi coin and the "new style" entrance plate was gone but it is the 1969 catalog that has the machine A Go Go in it.:blink:

From what I can see in the 1966 catalog, there was a multi coin plate listed for Australia with a Williams part number that did use two different coin types but at the back of the catalog, (where the info and spares for the coin mechs are), there appears to be no suitable cradles made as a part for these coins to be used in the multicoin coin mechs.

Brad
18th February 2018, 05:41 PM
124310
I have some scans of aussie currency somewhere if you want them.


That would be great millsy if you can although mine is the original single mech version. They replaced them in later runs with the triple coin mech variants. Apparently the multi-coin single mech proved too troublesome so they stopped using them :unsure

Cheers.

Brad

ajfclark
18th February 2018, 05:43 PM
I'd love to see a mechanical multi coin mech. Sounds like a nightmare but I bet it's interesting.

Brad
18th February 2018, 06:02 PM
I'd love to see a mechanical multi coin mech. Sounds like a nightmare but I bet it's interesting.



Unfortunately mine is missing as it had been converted to freeplay and taken out before I got it. This is whats left. You can see the triple coin switches though! Look at the rust on that slam tilt :lol

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180218_175344.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180218_175350.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180218_175354.jpg

Edit: Looking at the before photos I'm trying to imagine how coind went from the slot at the top to the switches behind that bracket at the bottom in the below photo?

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180103_104954.jpg

Cheers,

Brad

Brk_oth
18th February 2018, 07:24 PM
I'd love to see a mechanical multi coin mech. Sounds like a nightmare but I bet it's interesting.
124331124332

Sent from my SM-G930F using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

ajfclark
18th February 2018, 07:57 PM
124331124332

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Am I reading that right that it internally handles 2x10 coins somehow?

Brk_oth
18th February 2018, 08:43 PM
Am I reading that right that it internally handles 2x10 coins somehow?
Correct. Nothing fancy though. Its an extra little pivoting piece that sits at the bottom of the coin mech... so its after the coin has been sorted and before the micro switch. The first coin is diverted to miss the credit switch and the second coin then hits the credit switch.
Excuse the terrible drawing in paint.
124333
The red part pivots. The top part of it directs where the coin goes, as the coin hits the bottom part it pivots the diverter so that the next coin to fall though will go the other direction.

Brad
18th February 2018, 09:15 PM
So going on that photo, you can see the metals slides that would sit into the brackets on the back of my coin door! No wonder it fit, the bloody thing was huge!

Brad

Autosteve
18th February 2018, 11:22 PM
Correct. Nothing fancy though. Its an extra little pivoting piece that sits at the bottom of the coin mech... so its after the coin has been sorted and before the micro switch. The first coin is diverted to miss the credit switch and the second coin then hits the credit switch.
Excuse the terrible drawing in paint.
124333
The red part pivots. The top part of it directs where the coin goes, as the coin hits the bottom part it pivots the diverter so that the next coin to fall though will go the other direction.

I had those diverters on 30 Wiko Shooting Gallery guns at Luna Park. Exactly as you have drawn them but only about 40-50mm deep but that was for tokens.

You think with the simplicity, "what can go wrong"?..

Well absolutely everything.

There is no guarantee the last coin through will make it fully toggle which may or may not jam the next coin.

If it doesn't jam, it slows the coin down and the then near stalled coin is trying to push the micro switch down which it may or may not do but if it does push the switch down, the pulse the switch puts out may be to long because the coin is going to slow and fail to count and locking up the game board for that gun needing a cold reboot.

So all up 3 different problems these things did cause on that machine and remember, this is a coin that has already pasted the size test, the bounce test, the weight test and the magnetic test on the coin mech itself so it is a valid coin excepted by the mech. It's just this stupid thing has failed.

I had one of these "toggles" on a coin mech with a switch attached and tested it for days on my workbench at Luna Park trying to sort it out and try to make them more reliable but in the end the machine was modded to "count" coins per game and these things I ripped out.

Brad
25th February 2018, 12:25 PM
Weekly update time!

Light blue done and dusted. Still need to touch up a couple of areas and add the single dark blue shape to each side of the backbox.

Should I do a layer of clear over this? What do others do?

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180225_121608.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180225_121624.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180225_121617.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180225_121652.jpg

Cheers,

Brad

jason1
25th February 2018, 01:35 PM
Great Job

ajfclark
25th February 2018, 09:13 PM
That looks the goods.

oldhank
25th February 2018, 09:31 PM
1966 a fine year!

goodolddays
26th February 2018, 06:37 AM
1966 a fine year!

Looks great Brad.:cool:

As for clearing it, depends on how glossy you want the finish to look .
I have repainted a few EM's now and I spray them with a gloss clear only because I use a Matt finish paint .
I don't go over the top , just enough to give it a bit of a shine .

Brad
26th February 2018, 07:46 AM
I used a semi-gloss which looks pretty good. For me its more about protection than anything else though and was wondering what others usually do.

Cheers,

Brad

Autosteve
26th February 2018, 11:16 AM
I think that paint job looks outstanding, a massive improvement. Well done mate.

It's just a pity,

"Factory paint is like virginity. Once you lose it, it's gone forever",

But your old paint job was like an old spinster anyway.

Brad
26th February 2018, 11:47 AM
I think that paint job looks outstanding, a massive improvement. Well done mate.

It's just a pity,

"Factory paint is like virginity. Once you lose it, it's gone forever",

But your old paint job was like an old spinster anyway.

True but yes it was absolutely ratshit. To compare here's a direct progression

1 - From Tip
2 - Stripped
3 - Sanded
4 - Undercoat
5 - Antique White
6 - Dark Blue
7 - Light Blue

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/comparison_2.jpg

Autosteve
26th February 2018, 11:51 AM
Yes she was a bit of an old spinster.:o

I like the spanking new whore any day.:cool:

Brad
26th February 2018, 12:02 PM
Yes she was a bit of an old spinster.:o

I like the spanking new whore any day.:cool:

My wife also happy that the drop cloths and mess is gone from outside ;)

Brad

jason1
26th February 2018, 12:14 PM
Certainly a big improvement, Really enjoying this thread mate, always look forward to this one popping up as a new post.
will be good to enjoy your hard work when its up and running and looking great.
Thread rated

SteelBalls
26th February 2018, 03:43 PM
Nice work, looks great!

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Arcade King
26th February 2018, 05:03 PM
Amazing work mate.

djgra79
27th February 2018, 08:08 AM
How have I missed this thread before?! Great work in getting this far, close to the finish now surely!!

Brad
27th February 2018, 08:18 AM
How have I missed this thread before?! Great work in getting this far, close to the finish now surely!!

Thanks!

I dunno mate. I've certainly been "spamming" it enough. Bloody thread is almost 13 pages long :redface

Maybe like me you avoided the Pinball section until now. The only time I read this section was for the occasional awesome EM restore thread. Now I spend more time here then elsewhere :D :blink:

Brad

djgra79
27th February 2018, 09:21 AM
I'm a complete noob and in absolute awe of all you talented lot.
I currently don't have the time or the budget to get into this hobby but I'm learning bits and pieces along the way via everyone else's progress.
One day I hope to contribute. One day :)

Brad
27th February 2018, 03:39 PM
I'm a complete noob and in absolute awe of all you talented lot.
I currently don't have the time or the budget to get into this hobby but I'm learning bits and pieces along the way via everyone else's progress.
One day I hope to contribute. One day :)

I'm the same, a complete n00b to pinball restores. (My very first) That's why this thread is here! If I can do it so can you =)

Brad

Brad
1st March 2018, 01:43 PM
Does anyone happen to have a digital copy of the 1969 Williams Parts Catalog? I'm trying to 100% identify parts I need to repair/replace both inside and out of the cab and being completely new to this I have no idea what goes with what when it comes to parts. The usual supplier sites have barely any info, relying on knowing what you're actually after which in my case is not going to happen :confused:

I know I have to find end of stroke switches, a match unit bell part, possibly flipper coils and/or rebuild kits. The list goes on!

Cheers,

Brad

illawarra_steelers
1st March 2018, 02:29 PM
have a hard copy happy to send up and when you are finished just bring it down to the meet.

Brad
1st March 2018, 02:33 PM
have a hard copy happy to send up and when you are finished just bring it down to the meet.

Thanks mate and as usual very generous. I found an online version but I wanted a digital one I could use whenever I wanted.

Lets wait and see if anyone else might be able to help out to save you the trouble first =) If not I'll gladly take it.

Cheers,

Brad

AdamC
3rd March 2018, 07:27 AM
Thanks!

.............Bloody thread is almost 13 pages long :redface



Brad

This is a great thread, Brad! You have done well on this project.

I must have my setting different .... I'm reading this on page 24 ... :)

ajfclark
3rd March 2018, 07:48 AM
Only page 6 here.

djgra79
3rd March 2018, 09:19 AM
This is a great thread, Brad! You have done well on this project.

I must have my setting different .... I'm reading this on page 24 ... :)

same here. might be default view setting??

Brad
3rd March 2018, 10:28 AM
Thanks guys.

Yes if you go into your personal settings you can change how many posts per page. Personally I prefer more posts than more pages.

Brad

Autosteve
3rd March 2018, 01:14 PM
You could cheat Brad but that takes all the fun out of it I believe plus you never love something as much when you haven't sweat over it and just bought it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253455814784?rmvSB=true

Brad
3rd March 2018, 03:21 PM
You could cheat @Brad (https://www.aussiearcade.com/member.php?u=217) but that takes all the fun out of it I believe plus you never love something as much when you haven't sweat over it and just bought it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/253455814784?rmvSB=true

LOL you're right AND it would have been cheaper ;)

Still that backglass is also ratshit

Brad

Brad
3rd March 2018, 05:04 PM
It's the little things that make a BIG difference

Yay, weekly update time. I've been touching up the cab paint in some small areas. Also picked up some semi-gloss black as the back box inner bevel is black along with the headbox mount so I've taped that up and will paint tomorrow. In the meantime I want to put the coin door back on now that the bulk of the cab work is done. I've already done the door itself along with the frames but I thought I'd show you the decals that @illawarra_steelers (https://www.aussiearcade.com/member.php?u=426) sent me =) See previous post.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180303_110114.jpg

And now attached

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180303_110323.jpg

Holy shit they look so good and its a stupid shame you can't get them anymore =(

So one of the things is that the coin door is held on by nuts and bolts. The bolts were rusted along with the coin door so they got the treatment too.

Here's how they looked

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180303_104256.jpg

Into the evaporust they went

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180303_104615.jpg

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180303_104654.jpg

2 Hours later they look like this! That just rubs off.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180303_155119.jpg

So into the cordless drill they went and run against some paint finishing sandpaper

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180303_154834.jpg

To look like this

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180303_155406.jpg

Then in arcade circles we do this sort of stuff. Been doing it for years and I assume you pinball guys are the same unless you're using those fancy pants tumblers ;) Into some cardboard

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180303_155524.jpg

Primer

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180303_155618.jpg

Then silver hammertone to match the door

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/coindoor/20180303_163709.jpg

I hope to show you a complete and installed door/cab tomorrow but I'm out in the morning so will depend on time

Cheers,

Brad

Brad
5th March 2018, 08:19 AM
Minor update. All cab painting is now complete! Have to say I'm glad as I really am over it :blink:

I know I said I'd have the coin door installed but I had some more pieces that needed the evaporust, prime, zinc paint treatment.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180304_091124.jpg

That's now been done but I wanted the paint to bake for a bit before I installed. I also need to re-create the door decals and order a slam tilt switch.

The two areas of black complete. Shitty enamel paint. What a pain in the arse to use compared to acrylic but I only needed a bit and I couldn't get any small tins of acrylic. These little white knight 100ml tins came in satin black.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180304_170831.jpg


http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180304_170732_2.jpg

Now I haven't looked far and wide but one thing is the mount for the plunger. The originals have the Williams logo embossed. All of the new ones I've seen are missing that. It's also some type of plastic but mine like the rest of the cab was faded to hell. Wanting to retain the logo I primed and then chrome painted it. I'm not totally happy with it so will decide wether to use it or not later.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180304_170814.jpg

Cheers,

Brad

goodolddays
5th March 2018, 08:23 AM
nice work as usual Brad.

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illawarra_steelers
5th March 2018, 08:26 AM
there are metal surrounds made the same way. they turn up from time to time on ebay.com. same with the plastic versions.

Gemini2544
5th March 2018, 08:30 AM
Those 100ml White knight tins come in Black are either Flat matt, Gloss & Satin at Bunnings.

millsy56
5th March 2018, 10:40 AM
Minor update. All cab painting is now complete! Have to say I'm glad as I really am over it :blink:

I know I said I'd have the coin door installed but I had some more pieces that needed the evaporust, prime, zinc paint treatment.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180304_091124.jpg

That's now been done but I wanted the paint to bake for a bit before I installed. I also need to re-create the door decals and order a slam tilt switch.

The two areas of black complete. Shitty enamel paint. What a pain in the arse to use compared to acrylic but I only needed a bit and I couldn't get any small tins of acrylic. These little white knight 100ml tins came in satin black.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180304_170831.jpg


http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180304_170732_2.jpg

Now I haven't looked far and wide but one thing is the mount for the plunger. The originals have the Williams logo embossed. All of the new ones I've seen are missing that. It's also some type of plastic but mine like the rest of the cab was faded to hell. Wanting to retain the logo I primed and then chrome painted it. I'm not totally happy with it so will decide wether to use it or not later.

http://harmoniseit.com/pinballrestore/cabpainting/20180304_170814.jpg

Cheers,

Brad

Coming to together nicely. :041:
Yes that chrome paint isnt the same as real chrome, I restrict the chrome paint to distant applications eg backglass surround.
Maybe strip it and use the hammertone -will match the coin door nicely in my opinion.