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View Full Version : WPC reset issue help, AAARRRRGGGG!! SOLVED, ROM VERSION ISSUE!!



FLEX
25th July 2016, 01:24 PM
Just about finished a restore on my FT. Have fired it up and played a few games on it. Everything seems to work fine until you get to multiball.
It has reset randomly on minimal occasions, but the bloody thing will reboot every time you get the super jackpot, guaranteed :o .

Went through the pinwiki reset page step by step and its still doing the same thing. Voltages all check out, so I have ordered new rectifiers and caps to go in it but am still unsure if this is the issue. Reason being is I swapped another driver board into it (although I cannot guarantee there is no issues with this board either, but still seems like a major coincidence..) and it does the exact same thing :realmad: !

I am getting spot on 5v on the MPU, but I have noticed the voltage reg LM323 running very, very hot (you cannot touch the heat sink it is that hot). Is this normal?
Voltages off the tranny seem good.
DMD is degassing so I tried it with DMD disconnected and it still resets (I had read that these can put extra load on everything if degassing).

Aside from this the game seems to run perfectly, so frustrating :013:
Any tips would be great.

edit: Problem solved, go to post 18# on page 2 (http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/82179-WPC-reset-issue-help-AAARRRRGGGG!!-!SOLVED!/page2) of this thread.

c_mario
25th July 2016, 01:55 PM
Hi,
I think this issue has been discussed many times and some people swear by one approach and others swear by something different.
Replacing Caps and regulators is advocated by some yet others say its a waste of time.
I have my own procedure that has fixed two of my machines in the past.
The usual reset issue is the 5V to the cpu falls below a set threshold then the CPU board reboots .
This is what I have done in the past. It worked for me.
I just replaced all the power supply headers on the Power Driver board and the CPU board and repined the connectors.
Neither machine has failed since.
Some may say that's just a scatter gun approach, and it may be so but now I have no problems.
I know the frustration.

FLEX
25th July 2016, 02:08 PM
Hi,
I think this issue has been discussed many times and some people swear by one approach and others swear by something different.
Replacing Caps and regulators is advocated by some yet others say its a waste of time.
I have my own procedure that has fixed two of my machines in the past.
The usual reset issue is the 5V to the cpu falls below a set threshold then the CPU board reboots .
This is what I have done in the past. It worked for me.
I just replaced all the power supply headers on the Power Driver board and the CPU board and repined the connectors.
Neither machine has failed since.
Some may say that's just a scatter gun approach, and it may be so but now I have no problems.
I know the frustration.

Yeah it is a bit that way once you start reading.
I have replaced the main header pins coming onto the driver board, but not the ones comming off and going to the MPU. I will do this as well seeing as though the board is out waiting for parts anyway. Cheers for the tip.

robm
25th July 2016, 03:06 PM
Hi,
I think this issue has been discussed many times and some people swear by one approach and others swear by something different.
Replacing Caps and regulators is advocated by some yet others say its a waste of time.
I have my own procedure that has fixed two of my machines in the past.
The usual reset issue is the 5V to the cpu falls below a set threshold then the CPU board reboots .
This is what I have done in the past. It worked for me.
I just replaced all the power supply headers on the Power Driver board and the CPU board and repined the connectors.
Neither machine has failed since.
Some may say that's just a scatter gun approach, and it may be so but now I have no problems.
I know the frustration.
If voltages test ok, i follow exactly the same procedure. After that, run jumpers for the 5v bridge and caps under the board

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Fire_Power
26th July 2016, 06:59 AM
Not a lot of help but I had the same FT issues and did the repin of driver power connectors, ran the extra underboard links and replaced a buldging psu cap. I didn't like the fact I was fiddling in every area at the same time but they all seemed plausible causes. I get so few super jackpots that I wanted them to count :) It now behaves, but I still don't get many super jackpots!

Gemini2544
26th July 2016, 08:34 AM
My I.J did the same thing on Jackpot & Multiball, I reseated & cleaned the power plugs on the CPU board & it hasnīt faulted since.

FLEX
26th July 2016, 09:33 AM
Thanks for all the input gents!

I have replaced all the headers for power on the driver board, including the output one for the other boards.
Replaced the header on the MPU board.
Re-flowed all the solder joints on all the caps and bridges on the driver board.

Just waiting for the transformer power plug to arrive (long story..) so I can fire it up and test it, I will report back.
If it still does the same thing I will replace all the caps and bridges once they arrive.

Fingers crossed..

toads
26th July 2016, 09:40 AM
All the methods seem to fix the same issue.
By reducing the amount of current going thru the circuit. Ie re pinning and new headers and possibly loose solder tabs or dry joints.
I'm betting if you kept a meter on the 5v when going into multiball the 5v would drop just enough to reboot.
Because so many things happening at once in multiball the current is at its highest.
This is when resets happen.

FLEX
27th July 2016, 06:11 PM
Ok so changed all the BR's and all the main caps, still resetting...

Just noticed though that LED 2 on the driver board is randomly coming on and going off. From what I understand this is suppose to stay lit.
LED 3 is off.
Any tips?
Could the voltage regulator do this if faulty?

Arcade King
27th July 2016, 07:23 PM
Have you tried tapping on the asic to see if it resets?

Sent from my HTC 10 using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

FLEX
27th July 2016, 08:40 PM
Checked all the voltage test points again and found I am now getting nearly 18V on the TP1 (should be 12V). I checked the voltage on the cable going to J112 and yep, 18v..
Thats when it dawned on me, holly sh!t, I got this machine from Oscar almost 3 years ago (container pin) and completely forgot to check the molex pin arrangment feeding the tranny from the line filter box!! :o
Sure enough it was setup wrong. I got it sorted out and yep, now I get a solid LED 2, and the voltage reg is running heaps cooler!

So at this point I was thinking, awesome its sorted, got a game started and advanced through to the super jackpot, hit the switch with the utmost confidence and BLINK, machine still reset, aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrgggg!
I just want to point out, this reset only occurs when COLLECTING the super jackpot. It will sit there all day with the insert blinking, but you have to hit the captive ball switch for it to resets.
And yes, you can hit the captive ball any other time throughout the game with no issues.
I tried another PD board in it again, just in case the voltage reg had been damaged due to excess voltage, no difference.
I think it is time to move on from the PD board and start looking harder at other possibilites.



Have you tried tapping on the asic to see if it resets?

Sent from my HTC 10 using Aussie Arcade mobile app (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=90390)

No, I havnt actually touched the MPU yet but it looks like thats where I am heading now.
Have you come across reset issues caused by the MPU before?
Everything I have read so far all points to the PD board, which is why I have focused so much on it.
I have another MPU in another machine I will try in it.

Can someone point me to the correct molex connector and pins that go from the line filter box to the tranny? Gonna need a new one..

Gemini2544
28th July 2016, 07:13 AM
Frustrating problem. It still seems to me that itś tripping the 5 volt dc WATCHDOG circuit. As mentioned before once the 5 volts drops at or below 4.8 volts the machine shuts down as a protection device. This restarts the game, a reset.

c_mario
28th July 2016, 10:00 AM
Hi,
I haven't tried this but I understand the principal behind his idea.
See this web site if your desperate.
http://www.kahr.us/
I actually purchased the same switch mode regulator he is using and was going to make a board myself but I have fixed my problems as I outlined in my first post.

FLEX
29th July 2016, 10:03 AM
Starting to look like its the MPU.
Swapped it over for another one and you could collect the super and it seem to have no issues with gameplay. The only thing was this other board has some corrosion on the pins going to the dmd and sound board so I was getting all sorts of weird display issues and random sound effects. Ran out of time so will clean this board up and give it another go tonight, hopefully will be all good.

Any idea's where I should start on the faulty board? Perhaps I should just send it to someone that knows what they are doing, but you dont learn anything doing that ;).

robm
29th July 2016, 01:52 PM
As travis mentioned earlier, i would look at reseating the asic and ram chips. After that prob send it away for repair

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Gemini2544
29th July 2016, 04:35 PM
Maybe time to reflow the all the solder joints.

wiredoug
29th July 2016, 04:49 PM
i like this writeup ... follow it step by step .. http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets

FLEX
31st July 2016, 11:42 AM
i like this writeup ... follow it step by step .. http://pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Game_resets

Thanks Doug. As I said at the start though, I had already gone through that step by step, now multiple times ;)

After pulling my hair out with this for two weeks and doing everything hardware related I could though, I can say that the reset issue is now solved !!! :D
It had nothing to do with anything wiring, board, or hardware related, but is in fact a software issue in this ROM version P-4

When the machine is set for extra ball at replay levels it resets when you reach it, when it is set as credit it does not. Obviously the easiest way to get to this level to check is with the super jackpot, which is why it always did it when you got this. I confirmed this was the case by racking up a score on the table in other ways and then flicking a switch to tick it over the replay level and yep, reset. Changed it to give credit and works fine.
Thanks has to go to 'scasey' on another forum which clued me into this.

So angry but so happy at the same time!
WHAT A RELIEF!!!

Gemini2544
1st August 2016, 06:04 AM
I have never heard of this one, I wonder how many titles have the same bug?

hotty
1st August 2016, 06:14 AM
I had a fish tales that had a reset issue also come to think of it I still have a FT ROM in my pinball tool kit I wonder if I changed it out because of this issue it was too long ago to remember. Glad you sorted it out

ItsUrFeminitzNYImNietYoma
1st August 2016, 06:53 AM
May I suggest FLEX that you edit your first post with a link to post #18 so others in future with this issue can go straight to the fix?

Also post a link to this thread (or a summary of of it) in the Fishtales Common Problems thread so it's recorded for the same reason? http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/25805-Fish-Tales-Williams

FLEX
1st August 2016, 08:29 AM
May I suggest FLEX that you edit your first post with a link to post #18 so others in future with this issue can go straight to the fix?

Also post a link to this thread (or a summary of of it) in the Fishtales Common Problems thread so it's recorded for the same reason? http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/25805-Fish-Tales-Williams

good idea, done and done!

Gemini2544
15th November 2016, 05:43 AM
After pulling my hair out with this for two weeks and doing everything hardware related I could though, I can say that the reset issue is now solved !!! :D
It had nothing to do with anything wiring, board, or hardware related, but is in fact a software issue in this ROM version P-4

When the machine is set for extra ball at replay levels it resets when you reach it, when it is set as credit it does not. Obviously the easiest way to get to this level to check is with the super jackpot, which is why it always did it when you got this. I confirmed this was the case by racking up a score on the table in other ways and then flicking a switch to tick it over the replay level and yep, reset. Changed it to give credit and works fine.
Thanks has to go to 'scasey' on another forum which clued me into this.

So angry but so happy at the same time!
WHAT A RELIEF!!!

Is your IJ still fixed flex, I will try this. Do you know the menu location setting you changed, is it A1 14 or A1 15 or both?

FLEX
15th November 2016, 06:02 AM
Is your IJ still fixed flex, I will try this. Do you know the menu location setting you changed, is it A1 14 or A1 15 or both?

I wish my IJ was fixed.. ;)

This machine was a Fish Tales, and yes, working like a charm. I purchased the up to date rom from skybeaux and then I could set it to give extra balls again no problems. I cannot remember the exact menu location, but it was the one that gives the replay award at particular score levels. Factory setting is first replay award at 100,000 points on FT, if you changed this to extra ball the machine would reset in the old rom version.