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Rob1966
26th September 2015, 05:23 PM
As the title states but more of a tidy up than a full on restore looking over all of these restoration threads has really motivated me to get off my ass and do something with this old girl, I was extremely lucky to pick up this machine in very good condition from the @Illawarra steelers. So it makes it for a real easy restore the only things that I can really pick on was the annoying lights flickering which was mainly due to the ancient original sockets so best thing to do was replace about 20 of them they were in to poor of a condition to salvage and just so unreliable while playing a game.
The next thing that needed attention was the 50points bonus between the flippers that wasn't working but that was an easy fix again just dodgy light socket and loose wire so again replaced it with a new modified socket and it works beautifully now and very reliable.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04030_zpsvqxm0xja.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04030_zpsvqxm0xja.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04026_zpsuhpmmicy.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04026_zpsuhpmmicy.jpg.html)
And the other thing that bothered me was the match feature function wasn't working, now this one had me stumped I just couldn't find the solution to this one no matter what I tried, so ended up getting a set of schematics from Marcos and found out there was no power getting up to it not sure if there is a faulty or broken wire. But following the schematics I found where the power was supplied from and put a new wire into the circuit so that it gets power again and presto match feature working again not sure if its the right way to solve the problem but hell it works pretty good now I also had to replace all of the light sockets for the match feature numbers in the backboard as well because they were just to unreliable.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04042_zpsgxdl0ncg.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04042_zpsgxdl0ncg.jpg.html)
Apart from the issues listed above the rest of the machine works great so the next step is the make over, I have been going over the old resto threads and have learnt so much just from what I have read especially from some of the restoration threads done by Millsy 56, and also the threads of others, and so the tracing the old cabinet art work begins this will be a long drawn out process so be patient for updates that is if anyone is interested in the project
.http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04078_zpsqrj0sxsr.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04078_zpsqrj0sxsr.jpg.html)
Pretty simple pattern so it shouldn't be to difficult I just have to do a bit more thread reading and studying up on techniques with the paint choices and application processes, I have decided to follow Millsy's lead and try the paint roller method.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04083_zpsnzuo66br.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04083_zpsnzuo66br.jpg.html)

v200juke
26th September 2015, 05:47 PM
I have a used set of playfield plastics if ya need them. All good condition . You can have them . Just let me know , Mark.

Rob1966
26th September 2015, 06:07 PM
Thanks for the offer Mark but when I purchased the machine some of the resto work had already been started which included the fitting of new set of repo plastics but having said that a spare set wouldn't go astray:).
I have a used set of playfield plastics if ya need them. All good condition . You can have them . Just let me know , Mark.

Rich
26th September 2015, 06:08 PM
That Coca Cola mannequin is a fukkin ripper, would love one of those!

- - - Updated - - -

Coca Cola swimsuit?

Rob1966
26th September 2015, 06:09 PM
does anyone know where to source the 32 inch new legs to suit these Gotlieb machines?

millsy56
26th September 2015, 06:09 PM
Will come up nicely - let me know if you need any help on the repaint.

thegrunta666
26th September 2015, 06:42 PM
That Coca Cola mannequin is a fukkin ripper, would love one of those!

- - - Updated - - -

Coca Cola swimsuit?

That's no mannequin, its a FEMBOT ! :lol

jason1
26th September 2015, 07:13 PM
prime the crap out of it and spray the art back on, not that hard todo if you prep it right it will be better than paint rolling it and will look way way nicer.
that job would be easy peezy

buy a $30 gun from supercheap.

sand it back, fill the scratches, pump a bucket load of high build 1K on it. let it sit over night, block it back flat with 400grit
pump some more primer on it let it sit for a week so the primer will have time to sink back.

wet rub with a block again with 400grit, let it sit over night, Then put the base white down, sit for 48hours then tape up and apply the color stripes.
hit with a polish and done.

illawarra_steelers
26th September 2015, 07:20 PM
does anyone know where to source the 32 inch new legs to suit these Gotlieb machines?

oh i miss her..once she has a new cab paint she will look so sweet, they were my plans but something had to give.

doing the same thing at the same time with my 1961 oklahoma..good to see a few em's being restored all at the same time..

with the legs, they are 31" and the only place you will get them is pinball resource and even though they are us$13 each new they cost a bomb to get them here.

Rob1966
26th September 2015, 07:21 PM
The missus actually wanted it so I bought it for her, but I think I like her more now I am a coke collector as well so I bought her the coke girl waitress outfit and she looks pretty hot in it actually everyone who sees her spins out and loves her.
That Coca Cola mannequin is a fukkin ripper, would love one of those!

- - - Updated - - -

Coca Cola swimsuit?

Rob1966
2nd October 2015, 01:37 PM
Just a quick update because of work i really havn't had much time to get out and work on her, so she is all stripped down now and boy do i have a new sense of respect to you guy's that do this on a regular basis what a pain in the ass it is pulling one of these things down, however i do want to do the job properly so she is stripped down as far as it can go.
Ok here goes so starting with the head box using some normal non greasy baking paper from the kitchen time to re-trace the original artwork to keep aside for later on, but as you can see from the first picture it looks like someone in the past has repainted the green section around where the backglass sits however they diddn't redo the white tear-drops on either side.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04077_zps3sszzsa7.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04077_zps3sszzsa7.jpg.html)
So searched the net for some photo's to use as a reference to re-create them on the sides again it just doesn't look the same without them.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04090_zpsneqweez4.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04090_zpsneqweez4.jpg.html)
Used the photo to compare roughly where about's the teardrops sit in relation to the backglass and where they sit in relation to the pic and then using anything with a circular shape to get roughly the right sizes drew in the new inserts that will eventually be made into the stencils for use after the base coat of white is done.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04091_zpslbelmiw6.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04091_zpslbelmiw6.jpg.html)
Diddn't come up to bad it think
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04092_zps6j56mq25.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04092_zps6j56mq25.jpg.html)
Side cabinet artwork is next that was very straight
forward nice easy to copy all straight edges.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04095_zpspbjn1il3.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04095_zpspbjn1il3.jpg.html)
Next update will be of the sanding and filling and undercoat learning heaps along the way and looking at all the other threads as i am going is really motivating me along so thanks guy's and keep it up.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04096_zpskq6uiryw.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04096_zpskq6uiryw.jpg.html)

illawarra_steelers
2nd October 2015, 02:26 PM
looking good rob :)

the only thing i would add..take the backglass out and store it somewhere safe

Rob1966
2nd October 2015, 09:05 PM
Already ahead of you Tony headbox has been completely gutted ready for sanding, and the glass has been put safely aside.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rich
3rd October 2015, 07:52 AM
Lovely looking pin, great new addition!
You say some work had been done.....the lockdown bar? the ends are in terrific condition, nice!

Rob1966
4th October 2015, 08:03 PM
Hi all just a really small update really diddn't get a whole lot done mainly just worked on the headbox stripped her right back and sanded her right back with the orbital sander, its only when you get all the paint off these things that you can really see how rough these these things were put together in the day a lot of stapling was done at the time.
Even so it ended up being in fairly good condition considering its age.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04102_zpsifzj6p3h.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04102_zpsifzj6p3h.jpg.html)
So paint all off and just a few minor repairs with some wood glue and nails and then just filling up everything else up with filler, i ended up using wood mate from Bunnings as the filler and once dry it sanded up really well, it was just about every corner that needed building up and sanding back but i suppose after about 50 years of putting together and pulling apart has got to take its toll and its usually the corners that get knocked around the most.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04100_zpszdwq3ugv.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04100_zpszdwq3ugv.jpg.html)
Also the deep gouges you cant sand out that these things all seem to have i ended up using a plasterboard top coat product that spreads on really well sets quite hard and sands back so smooth, when the undercoat goes on you wont be able to see a thing.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04097_zps1xct7uzl.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04097_zps1xct7uzl.jpg.html)
With this rebuild i also want to replace where i can with new or refinish the chrome/stainless metal work the side rails have all been removed and i have put in an order with JPD for a complete new set which will really make her pop after the new paint job also making up an order for the Pinball resource centre for a few things for this machine and the King Pin which will include new 31 inch legs for both.
There is one or i should say two pieces of metal work that i cant seem to find any part numbers for thats if anyone makes them, its the two pieces that are just under where the headbox sits where the glass slides into.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04103_zpsbwgkciwe.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04103_zpsbwgkciwe.jpg.html)
If i cant find any new replacements what does anyone recomend to do to refinish these metal parts are they chrome/nickel finish or are they just stainless ? they need something done to them as they look pretty crappy at the moment and will really stand out in a bad way after everything else is refinished .
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04104_zpsgsbqc7xk.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04104_zpsgsbqc7xk.jpg.html)

illawarra_steelers
4th October 2015, 08:13 PM
those parts are not available as repros..you have to remember that the gottlieb plant was running 24/7 to keep production running through the 1960s and 70s..can't remember the number but they were making something like 200 games a day..rob if you are looking to sell the old 31" legs there is a home here for them.

Rob1966
4th October 2015, 08:19 PM
I have sent an email to PBR yesterday with an order and quote for postage so as long as the cost for postage isn't to extreme i will go ahead with the order and then i never really thought about it but i suppose if someone could do with the legs i guess that would be fine.

wiredoug
4th October 2015, 08:35 PM
I love this thread. Great seeing the old girl get new makeup.
I think you will like your old legs a lot more when you get the bill for new ones. The only viable way to do it is sea freight.

Rob1966
4th October 2015, 08:49 PM
Mmm you could be right but will see how the quote goes first but if not mabye rechroming is another option.

polaris
5th October 2015, 02:33 PM
Great project, loving the photos! :-)

flipperclown
9th October 2015, 10:20 AM
Looks great, cant wait to see the finished pictures, such a kool looking game.

Rob1966
11th October 2015, 04:34 PM
Ok bear with me because I have only just woken up from doing night shift at work, but here goes progress has been very slow and I only seem to get out and work on it for half an hour to an hour at a time.
Next step in my resto is the continuation of making of the stencils, step one was getting some cardboard from the newsagents the white sheets that I used only cost .80cents each so they are cheap and to get the size you need just tape a couple of sheets together.
With the traced on baking paper sheets that were done on my previous update they are layed down onto the sheets of cardboard to basically create an exact side copy of the cabinet. With a pen pushing down fairly hard to make an indentation on the cardboard trace the entire design out, when that is done you are left with a copy of the artwork on the paper that is very hard to see but you just grab a pencil and go over all the lines again.
Step two lay down the design on a wooden board or something that you can safely cut into I used an old running deck that was no good off one of our treadmills, now grab a sharp bladed knife and a straight edge and cut out the entire design.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04108_zps05g4bcas.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04108_zps05g4bcas.jpg.html)
Now tipping the cab on its side lay stencil down and take your time to line it up on over the side cab art and believe it or not it took me about 10mins to get it just perfect and now is when you want to get it lined up just right because when you sand back the cabinet you will be driving yourself crazy trying to line it up just right.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04105_zpskjh1jy4a.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04105_zpskjh1jy4a.jpg.html)
On trick I used to line the stencil up perfectly was lay down one of the removed side rails back to where it should be sitting mark with a pencil the outline of where it sits remove it and tack in two small nails don?t worry about the nail holes because they get covered up by the rails when they are put back in place.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04109_zpsqxmibufb.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04109_zpsqxmibufb.jpg.html)
So pull the nails out and do exactly the same to the other side, now when you go to mark out the artwork design on the cabinet after its painted you just have to lay the stencil down put the nails back in there position where they were removed from and the artwork will be exactly where it should be.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04107_zpsium94pun.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04107_zpsium94pun.jpg.html)
Now after your happy with all the stencil prep work its time to grab out the trusty orbital sander and go nuts with it I used 80 grit sanding discs to get off the majority of the art work then 120 or 180 grit to smooth it back a bit, so paint work all off its time to bog up all the bigger dents especially the marks that you make when you remove the side rails , it is impossible not to do damage when removing them.
So with the bigger marks I used the wood mate from Bunnings again and for all the other imperfections I used an all purpose filler that spreads on really well, now just giving it a couple of days to dry properly will do another update when I get time to get into it again.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04110_zpshjf0cnqq.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04110_zpshjf0cnqq.jpg.html)

illawarra_steelers
11th October 2015, 06:02 PM
hey rob..looking good..think it's a good thing to only wotk on them for an hour at a time..keep the updates coming :-)

goodolddays
18th October 2015, 08:01 AM
gday mate ..
Your nails to hold the stencil in place is such a simple idea .. which is probably why I never thought of it !!

Hope you dont mind but I will be using that idea from now on LOL

Rob1966
18th October 2015, 03:55 PM
gday mate ..
Your nails to hold the stencil in place is such a simple idea .. which is probably why I never thought of it !!

Hope you dont mind but I will be using that idea from now on LOL

Sometimes the simplest ideas are the best


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rob1966
22nd October 2015, 08:41 PM
Ok time again for a progress update I have been doing a little bit more each day so it now actually looks like its getting somewhere.
Since last update I have totally done all repairs and sanded everything back smooth and have added three coats of Taubmans 3 in 1 under coat , then given it a light sand back ready for the top coat.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04111_zpsyk5x4jqy.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04111_zpsyk5x4jqy.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04112_zpsusdepsoz.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04112_zpsusdepsoz.jpg.html)
Tonight I had a bit of time after work to spare to do a bit more painting, the colour I have picked as the base white colour is Dulux Antique White USA the base paint used for the colour was Dulux Aquaenamel waterbased base paint ,I have been reading up on previous restore threads and also on Pinrepair and it seems to be the in colour that everyone uses for these old Gotliebs , and if you are like me and cant stand paint clean up after painting do yourself a favour and get some of these handy little disposable paint pots they are actually called handy pots go figure hey, once your finished your painting session you just wrap it up in an old supermarket shopping bag and throw it out also buy your rollers in these 10 packs they are cheap as and you just throw them away with the paint pot after each painting session so there is zero clean up afterwards.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04116_zpsiyhe9kv3.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04116_zpsiyhe9kv3.jpg.html)
So the next two pics are of tonights painting session of the base Antique white I managed to get two coats on I really want 3-4 coats but after about 2 ? hours of painting after finishing a 10hour shift at work today I had, had enough for one night so maybe another two coats on Saturday, you would be supprised how time gets away from you when you start painting these things.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04117_zpsycqzjwar.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04117_zpsycqzjwar.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04115_zps2qzxbafy.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04115_zps2qzxbafy.jpg.html)

Rob1966
25th October 2015, 07:31 PM
More progress today now this was a part that i was really dreading the splatter application and i will say when i first took on the project i was going to skip this bit and just paint and apply the stencils, but as the project has progressed i have been starting to feel a little bit more confident with each step so i did decide that it just wouldn't look right skipping the splatter effect.
So before i even thought about attempting it i decided to do as much research as possible i read the previous threads on here and searched the net reading threads on Pinside and where ever else i could find something on it, i also realised that splatter which shouldn't be confused with the original webbing effect that Gotlieb used back when they were first done are two completly diffrent effects. I also come across this little video on you tube which come in handy and which i thought others might like to see its about applying the spatter effect to a pinball cabinet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlZM7xzxkDE
Now the paint that i used to apply the spatter was White Knight epoxy rust guard enamel satin finish in black and to apply it i found after a bit of practice that a stiff wire brush worked best, this is the one i used i got from work and cut it down to the right size that i could handle but any stiff wire brush should do the job just as good.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04133_zpstueypozd.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04133_zpstueypozd.jpg.html)


Anyhow after a bit of practice on some spare sheets of cardboard until i thought i felt comfortable with the technique I started on the main cabinet and to say that I wasn't nervous was an under statement.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04132_zpscmwtl97d.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04132_zpscmwtl97d.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04129_zpsdd1zpqhz.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04129_zpsdd1zpqhz.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04127_zpst4zegj3i.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04127_zpst4zegj3i.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04126_zpsj63ain1e.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04126_zpsj63ain1e.jpg.html)
I also did just inside the cabinet sides just to finish it all off as you can see this area when the playfield is in and glass is on and it would have looked silly if it diddnt match the rest of the cabinet also did the small section that joins inbetween the cabinet and headbox this piece also needs to be finished off with the part that is sunk in that faces the front painted in black which it was when i got it, I was contemplating painting the centre part of it in the same green that features in part of the cabinet art because the black just seems out of place as there is no other black anywhere else on the machine but not sure which one to do yet will still think about that one.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04130_zpstyqevsxu.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04130_zpstyqevsxu.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04131_zpspbeqskur.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04131_zpspbeqskur.jpg.html)

illawarra_steelers
25th October 2015, 08:19 PM
looks awesome rob..and i'm glad you did the splatter, cause imo it just doesn't look right without it..

also fantastic seeing all these ems being done at the same time..we kinda are encouraging each other as we go..

also hope to see some more being restored in the future..

Rob1966
31st October 2015, 07:29 PM
Ok progress time again, now first step is to grab the stencils that were made earlier and lay them down flat on the cabinet sides and using a couple of small nails tacked into the holes that were made when i set the stencils up on the previous update.
The stencils end up in exactly the right place that the original stencils on the cabinet were, this step saved so much time and headaches trying to line things up after the cabinet has been stripped and base coat added, so just grab a pencil and trace around the entire stencil then when finished remove the stencil and presto the entire design is now back on the cabinet. But with the backbox stencils i found it easier to just copy the stencil on by hand using the tracings as a reference.

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04134_zpsrtkfh2bi.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04134_zpsrtkfh2bi.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04137_zpsttdpyyum.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04137_zpsttdpyyum.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04136_zps65ymy3be.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04136_zps65ymy3be.jpg.html)
After all that is done it is time for the masking up now this part gave me the absolute shits it took me about 2.5hrs to mask up the entire cabinet and backbox and thats just for the first colour which is the orange.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04138_zpsgt1mecin.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04138_zpsgt1mecin.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04139_zpsj9wmy9ga.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04139_zpsj9wmy9ga.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04140_zps3oelfrnc.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04140_zps3oelfrnc.jpg.html)
The last photos are after about three coats of paint, i found that the paint diddnt cover very well so i was all light coats and i will probably end up doing about five coats at about 1.5 - 2 hours apart so it has ended up taking just about the entire day to do, and i am actually doing this update now just to kill time inbetween coats.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04141_zpsp3yewih2.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04141_zpsp3yewih2.jpg.html)
Oh and one thing i did forget to mention is that i followed the lead of Tony illawarra steelers and Milsy with their idea of dipping my finger in the base colour and smearing a thin layer of paint all around the edges of the tape before applying the orange to prevent the final colour from bleeding through.
Great tips guys the previous threads on here have been so handy for this entire job rest asured you are motivating others to have a go.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04143_zpsj0qghrah.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04143_zpsj0qghrah.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04141_zpsp3yewih2.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04141_zpsp3yewih2.jpg.html)

Rich
1st November 2015, 09:29 AM
Loving your work :023:
Are the two different colour tapes intentional?

Rob1966
1st November 2015, 10:32 AM
Yes and no I had the blue tape but wasn't happy with the way it stuck, it had a tenency to roll up so I diddnt want to risk it with the actual paint masking and as the purple tape was a lot more expensive I diddnt want to waste it on taping the paper bits down, hence the blue tape.


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Jesder
1st November 2015, 01:17 PM
Awesome work mate. Your machine is coming along nicely - it's enjoyable to follow this along :)


After all that is done it is time for the masking up now this part gave me the absolute shits it took me about 2.5hrs to mask up the entire cabinet and backbox and thats just for the first colour which is the orange.

It's amazing how much time it does take to get the sides ready for painting. I found even using the stencils on Pinbot took me quite a bit of time to get the sides clean, apply the stencil, mask everything else off and then finally get the paint ready just for the first layer. I was tired before I had even put a coat down it ;) Then once done you have to remove it all and repeat with the next layer. Very time consuming. I love seeing people go to this level of detail on their projects though as it's no easy task, you learn a lot along the way and in the end you're left with an amazing looking machine.

Rob1966
1st November 2015, 06:14 PM
Gee it's good to see all these EM's getting restored at the same time Im sure everyone is motivating each other, anyhow I got a little bit done today nothing big mainly stripping off the tape and seeing how the first colour went, and for a first attempt i am really happy with the results the lines have come up nice and clean and crisp with no bleeding comming through i also ended up with about five coats of paint by the time i was happy with the coverage.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04144_zpsyulxju6q.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04144_zpsyulxju6q.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04145_zpsoymjtblw.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04145_zpsoymjtblw.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04146_zpsq9pgo5fv.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04146_zpsq9pgo5fv.jpg.html)
The only other things that i got done today were the painting of the little neck piece that goes between the cabinet and the headbox, now with this piece i was tossing up weather to do it in the original black which I thought diddn't really match or the green that is a the second colour for the stenciling, and with the desicision made I stayed with the black to keep it original.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04147_zpsfncnxqih.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04147_zpsfncnxqih.jpg.html)
The other thing that i got to today was the making of the stencil for the headbox, so again using the tracing that was done early on in the resto i made up a stencil out of cardboard carefully cutting it out with a sharp bladed knife because any defects will show up when the colour is done.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04148_zpsplhpj5jb.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04148_zpsplhpj5jb.jpg.html)
So stencil or more template made it has been carefully laid out flat on the headbox and when i looks perfect it is taped in place to hold it down in place then just traced around with a pencil to repoduce the design, when finished it will have the teardrops that were missing from before as someone prior painted over them for some reason.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04151_zpsxelpsmdj.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04151_zpsxelpsmdj.jpg.html)

Gemini2544
1st November 2015, 07:32 PM
When I speckled "Cleopatra" I found it could be done with great control by barely pressing the button on a Gloss Black can of spray paint. The "speckle" were just that & not "worms" or "squiggles". Probably a bit late with the method but it worked well for me. Your doing a great job, keep up the good work. On AA "EM restoration" it's amazing how many EM's have been bought back from the dead to live on in the 21st century in just 12 months, If we didn't do it they all would be lost forever. :(

Rob1966
1st November 2015, 08:22 PM
Awesome work mate. Your machine is coming along nicely - it's enjoyable to follow this along :)



It's amazing how much time it does take to get the sides ready for painting. I found even using the stencils on Pinbot took me quite a bit of time to get the sides clean, apply the stencil, mask everything else off and then finally get the paint ready just for the first layer. I was tired before I had even put a coat down it ;) Then once done you have to remove it all and repeat with the next layer. Very time consuming. I love seeing people go to this level of detail on their projects though as it's no easy task, you learn a lot along the way and in the end you're left with an amazing looking machine.

It takes a hell of a long time to do the prep work I have found, but the results from doing the job properly in the first place really pays off in the end


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Rich
2nd November 2015, 08:16 AM
Love all the pics and attention to detail is first class. Impressive.
Just putting this out there and you may already know and it's probably widely known but when I have painted cabinets in the past I would use old nuts and bolts and offcuts of wood to hold down stencils to get a nice edge. I only mention this as I see you are about to do the front of the head box and you can see where it is raised ever so slightly.

Rob1966
3rd November 2015, 07:03 PM
Thanks Rich for the positive comments I have really enjoyed working on this project and I mainly did it to prove to myself that I could do a restoration job that was just as good as any others out there and also to motivate other first timers that it is possible to get a good result if you put your mind to it.
And with the stencil that you mentioned I probably should have explained properly what i was doing there what you see in that pic is not the actual template that is used for the painting, it is purely just for the marking out process the actual painting stencil is made up from masking tape, first i lay down the template then I trace it all out so that the design is transfered to the headbox then as best as possible I mask it all out, and it doesn't matter if you go over the lines that is easy to fix then with the masking all down trace through the stencil again onto the tape sections that covered up any lines.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04152_zps4botrmgq.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04152_zps4botrmgq.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04153_zps4vtkqvmo.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04153_zps4vtkqvmo.jpg.html)
After that is all done you can discard the template you will no longer need it, now comes the fun bit grab yourself a sharp knife and also to make things a little easier to cut out the round sections i found anything around the house that matched and in this case it was a can of Mr sheen great stuff and more than one use LOL to do the bigger corners and a lid I found off somthing to do the bottom corners and it also did the top big part of the tear drop on the sides and an American dime to do the small round section of the tear drop. So with those three objects as a guide cut out the bits of masking that cover over any of the lines and dont worry about cutting into the wood at all you get the feel for it and you can tell when you cut through the tape then its simply just a matter of peeling off any of the bits you just trimmed leaving you with a perfect stencil to paint with.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04154_zpsbhj7cm1i.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04154_zpsbhj7cm1i.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04156_zpstscxuyuo.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04156_zpstscxuyuo.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04155_zpsymauwzrh.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04155_zpsymauwzrh.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04157_zpsafzrqmio.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04157_zpsafzrqmio.jpg.html)
Now that the stencil is complete its time to mask the cabinet up as well ready for the second colour of the stenciling and once again this part took me a good two hours at least to get it all to the point that I was happy with it and believe me if there was a easier way I would have used it but there just isn't.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04159_zpsuhjyysnl.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04159_zpsuhjyysnl.jpg.html)
Also and this is a very important step using your finger smear a thin coat of the base Antique White all around the edges to prevent any bleed through of the paint.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04158_zpsrimkj6rg.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04158_zpsrimkj6rg.jpg.html)
Let it dry for an hour or so and then it's time for painting I did get the painting done today as well but i just havn't taken any pic's yet of that part so I will udate again in another day or so with those results.



Love all the pics and attention to detail is first class. Impressive.
Just putting this out there and you may already know and it's probably widely known but when I have painted cabinets in the past I would use old nuts and bolts and offcuts of wood to hold down stencils to get a nice edge. I only mention this as I see you are about to do the front of the head box and you can see where it is raised ever so slightly.

illawarra_steelers
3rd November 2015, 07:41 PM
well you have to be stoked the way that came out, can't fault that in any way..

so what are your plans after you finish the cab?

jason1
3rd November 2015, 08:26 PM
Ive noticed allot of people using rollers to paint their cabs, Is the texture from rollers the same texture as what it would have been when new? is this why the rollers are used on these EM's?

v200juke
3rd November 2015, 09:56 PM
Ive noticed allot of people using rollers to paint their cabs, Is the texture from rollers the same texture as what it would have been when new? is this why the rollers are used on these EM's?

Roller finish is the way to go I think. Personally I have been doing it for years and feel it gives the proper authentic look. These machines were never Cadillac finish , more Daewoo. Just my 2 cents input. Mark.

Rob1966
3rd November 2015, 10:28 PM
I am stoked with the way things have turned out so far and as far and as far as what to do once the cab is done, im pretty happy with most of the rest of it i played around with replacing a heap of globe sockets when i first got it to make it a bit more reliable and i also got a few of the features that were not working going again but other things that i do want to get to are the metal work, I want to replace anything metal that I can with new I actually splashed out and got brand new 31" legs and levelers from PBR also new side rail nails from them and i am just waiting to hear back from JPD about a new set of side rails for it and I have tried cleaning up some of the other metal bits that they don't repoduce but I must admit i am not that happy with the results so I have been toiling with the idea of nickel or chrome plating, not sure yet also going to see my local Glazier and getting a new tempered playfield glass for it and other than that im pretty happy with everthing else.
One other thing I was wondering is do you guy's clear coat the cabs when you have finished with the painting or just leave them as is?
well you have to be stoked the way that came out, can't fault that in any way..

so what are your plans after you finish the cab?

- - - Updated - - -

Totally agree roller is the way to go back when these things were done they were made cheap and quick the cabs were slapped together and because they were mostly white you could see a lot of defects in the woodwork and thats why the spatter or webbing was put on the cabs to draw your eyes away from all the rough craftmanship and even the stenciling was done by bing brass stencils that were laid down on the cabs and quickly sprayed over to save money they also diddn't even under coat there wasn't much paint on these things at all so the resto work that we all do on these things is a huge improvement on the factory finishes.
Roller finish is the way to go I think. Personally I have been doing it for years and feel it gives the proper authentic look. These machines were never Cadillac finish , more Daewoo. Just my 2 cents input. Mark.

jason1
4th November 2015, 07:27 AM
Roller finish is the way to go I think. Personally I have been doing it for years and feel it gives the proper authentic look. These machines were never Cadillac finish , more Daewoo. Just my 2 cents input. Mark.

cool thanks for that, was wondering why people choose it over spray. now I know

Rob1966
4th November 2015, 06:43 PM
Ok as promised an update after completing the second colour on the cabinet and headbox, now with the orange it diddn't seem to cover as well so i ended up doing five coats however with the green it was so much better to work with and I was really happy with the coverage after just three coats, so after leaving it to dry overnight I came back to it after work today to do the removal of the tape and I must admit I seem to get a little bit nervous everytime with this bit.
But as I was slowly removing the tape stencils I could see that the lines were looking really nice and sharp and as @illawara steelers would say I was stoked with the results.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04160_zps24csvmtz.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04160_zps24csvmtz.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04161_zpsm66xbgqy.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04161_zpsm66xbgqy.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04162_zpsijfn4s5e.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04162_zpsijfn4s5e.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04163_zpspfiihbrn.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04163_zpspfiihbrn.jpg.html)
And even the teardrops well that's what I call them anyway are back in place where they were missing from, I was really happy with the way the headbox turned out.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04164_zpsecgis3bn.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04164_zpsecgis3bn.jpg.html)
And the cabinet tape removal also revealed some nice clean lines as well so I was very excited about how that turned out as well.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04165_zps6bn18jrm.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04165_zps6bn18jrm.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04166_zpsw4huwdqs.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04166_zpsw4huwdqs.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04168_zpsdzfjiscm.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04168_zpsdzfjiscm.jpg.html)
And the last pic is of all the painted bits put together but not but not bolted I just wanted to roughly see how it was all going to look when completed.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04171_zpsrprdxvki.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04171_zpsrprdxvki.jpg.html)
Everything that I have explained in this rebuild so far are bits and pieces of ideas taken from other restore threads on here and elsewere and also ideas that i have come up with myself, its not nessecerely the best way to do things but it is what worked best for me.

illawarra_steelers
4th November 2015, 07:30 PM
wow, how good is that! have been really enjoying watching my old cover girl go to a place i once had planed..this was always my plan and
have to say you have done a better job than i could of..it's such a stunning game from that era..keep the updates coming :cool:

thejudge
4th November 2015, 07:50 PM
Its a great relief when that last piece of tape or stencil comes off isn't it :)
Nice job.

JOKERPOKER
4th November 2015, 07:52 PM
Bloody beautiful. :applause:

Rob1966
4th November 2015, 08:47 PM
wow, how good is that! have been really enjoying watching my old cover girl go to a place i once had planed..this was always my plan and
have to say you have done a better job than i could of..it's such a stunning game from that era..keep the updates coming :cool:

After seeing some of the work that you have done on these old girls Tony I am honoured to receive praise like that from you, when you sold her to me you gave me such a good base as a starting point and as far as restoring early Gotliebs I just love seeing them come back to life they are just so beautiful to look at they are works of art in my opinion.


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Rob1966
7th November 2015, 06:46 PM
Dont you just love all of these EM machines getting new life brought back to them it's a great sight to see them all comming along, I even managed to get out there today and work on my own well a little bit anyway.
Well she is standing on her own four legs again which I installed today all new from PBR including new bolts and levelers, cab protectors and nylon washers to protect the chrome I also got the rubber feet protectors for them as well. Oh one other thing you may have noticed is the backbox mechanisims are all back in.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04183_zpsu8vpubrz.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04183_zpsu8vpubrz.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04177_zps4k49wsbx.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04177_zps4k49wsbx.jpg.html)
Also cleaned up and installed most of the hardware back onto the front of the cabinet "Mmm Shiny", I have been trying to replace as much as possible with new and polish up as best as i can anything else.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04181_zpssjdlfr9z.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04181_zpssjdlfr9z.jpg.html)
The glass alloy guides have all been given a good polish up and had new nails installed as well.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04182_zpsyjoqusjs.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04182_zpsyjoqusjs.jpg.html)
But the biggest thing so far that has given me problems and I thought that would be the painting has been the metal work, how the hell do you guy's get these bits and pieces so nice and shiny i have so far been using polish scourers, a rust remover that I bought from Bunnings I even tried the alluminuim foil trick but so far havn't been happy with anything yet.
Not sure weather to send them away to get replated? or go to Allform and get some new ones made up or what any suggestions?
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04184_zpsjcfob12o.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04184_zpsjcfob12o.jpg.html)

illawarra_steelers
7th November 2015, 06:54 PM
so beautiful..just stunning..

love all these em's being done all together..hope some members will be encouraged to take one on..

Railways
7th November 2015, 06:58 PM
Looking very nice indeed. pm sent.

Rob1966
7th November 2015, 07:22 PM
PM sent Tony
so beautiful..just stunning..

love all these em's being done all together..hope some members will be encouraged to take one on..

millsy56
7th November 2015, 07:53 PM
Well done - Looks great :038::038:

Rich
7th November 2015, 07:55 PM
Looking amazing, if you are unhappy with the old plating get them done in a bright zinc, just a suggestion.
With the meticulous work you have done it will eat away at you and will look out of place until you bring them up to par with the rest of her beauty.

Rob1966
7th November 2015, 08:19 PM
Any suggestions of places to do the coating, and yes your right it would eat away at me it already is I cant finish this thing until i come up with a solution that makes me happy now.
Looking amazing, if you are unhappy with the old plating get them done in a bright zinc, just a suggestion.
With the meticulous work you have done it will eat away at you and will look out of place until you bring them up to par with the rest of her beauty.

Rich
7th November 2015, 08:31 PM
All the plating that was done that has that dull silver look now is either gal or zinc depending on the manufacturer.
Zinc plating has a high resistance to corrosion. That goldy red type blue effect is passive colour that occurs after being dipped into anther solution to increase resistance even more. Like you see on heaps of automotive stuff.
I think you will be happy if you choose a bright zinc finish on those 3 pieces you are currently unhappy with. The bright zinc finish will have a blue haze to it like chrome.
Whomever you choose to go to should be able to show you different plated finishes on different substrates.
Yours should be straight forward, strip zinc, polishing shouldn't be necessary unless rust has attacked the base metal (substrate) where the piece may need a light surface polish or sand blasting with a very light media to ensure an even finish then in the soaking tank to remove any oils, through the standard rinses and acid then rises then into the zinc and a rise to finish off.
This is only a guess but you should get away with them all done for under $100.

Rob1966
7th November 2015, 09:04 PM
Thanks for your input Rich I will try looking up a few places next week hopefully there is someplace close by or even if i have to post them out i dont mind
All the plating that was done that has that dull silver look now is either gal or zinc depending on the manufacturer.
Zinc plating has a high resistance to corrosion. That goldy red type blue effect is passive colour that occurs after being dipped into anther solution to increase resistance even more. Like you see on heaps of automotive stuff.
I think you will be happy if you choose a bright zinc finish on those 3 pices you are currently unhappy with. The bright zinc finish will have a blue haze to it like chrome.
Whomever you choose to go to should be able to show you different plated finishes on different substrates.
Yours should be straight forward, strip zinc, polishing shouldn't be necessary unless rust has attacked the base metal (substrate) where the piece may need a light surface polish or sand blasting with a very light media to ensure an even finish then in the soaking tank to remove any oils, through the standard rinses and acid then rises then into the zinc and a rise to finish off.
This is only a guess but you should get away with them all done for under $100.

Gemini2544
8th November 2015, 09:21 AM
Absolutely beautiful result, well done.

goodolddays
9th November 2015, 08:36 AM
Awesome result ! Congrats on a great job :cool:

Rob1966
10th November 2015, 07:15 PM
Ok baby steps getting a litle bit more done here and there first off the flipper mechs and buttons are back in place and the red anodised buttons look really nice against the new paintwork of the cab also the playfield is back in the cab as well.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04186_zpshzbjwwzf.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04186_zpshzbjwwzf.jpg.html)
Also one thing that I did want to do some work on was the backbox cover after the new paintwork on the cabinet the old back cover was looking a bit sad and was also being held in place by a screw that was screwed into the wood of the headbox here is a pic of what the old cover looks like.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04189_zpsnb8byadr.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04189_zpsnb8byadr.jpg.html)
So I had a Shetie mate at work whip up a new cover for me also fixed up the screw holes in the wood when I did the repairs to the cabinet before the paint was applied, and fitted a new lock.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04188_zps9poqeyj0.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04188_zps9poqeyj0.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04190_zpszbh9gd37.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04190_zpszbh9gd37.jpg.html)
It come up pretty good in my opinion and best of all it cost me next to nothing but I also think it,s the little details that make the difference in a restore and I know some people like to keep as much original parts as possible but Its my machine and i like it.
So thats it for now I am sending off all these bit's to get nickel plated so thats going to be about three weeks so not a lot I can do till they get back, I am also going to visit my local Glazier to get a new tempered playfield glass cut for it.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04185_zpsprk8pyua.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04185_zpsprk8pyua.jpg.html)

Rich
11th November 2015, 06:18 AM
Loving your work.
The third piece to the right in your pic of parts to be plated, from the left, the rear glass cover? looks to be stainless steel.
Now how to word this.........not a criticism, just putting it out there but IMO don't get it plated.
You can plate stainless but it will come up nice with some cleaning. You can go mirror if you want but might take your eyes away from the playfield.
I think it was originally a brushed matte finish but if it is stainless you can experiment.
That is of course if it is stainless. In post #48 (http://www.aussiearcade.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=48) they look different.

Rob1966
11th November 2015, 10:42 PM
I did give cleaning up the pieces a go but no matter what i tried I just wasn't happy with the results also if i get one thing plated it will look silly if the other bits dont match so i have left this one to the pro's, the parts have been sent away and I must stress this shop around when you get some plating done because I sent out about six enquires for quotes and I sent everyone of them the same info and the same pic.
And i only got three replies I guess a job like this was just to small for some of them, now the thing that shocked me the most was the prices that I got back the first quote that I got and I really think that they wern't that interested for a start they couldnt do the job until mid January and they wanted $500, wow what a shock first thing that came through my mind was yeah right thats not going to happen, then the second quote was a little more reasonable at a little less than half the first one at $240, then the final quote which is the one that i went with was Master Electroplating in Carrum Downs Melbourne and they quoted $120, boy what a huge difference between quotes and they were all given the exact same Email with exactly the same picture so it pays to shop around.

Rich
12th November 2015, 06:10 AM
There is quite a bit involved in electroplating, I remember the most common comment was "just dip it". Customers couldn't understand the price and why it was so high.
With your pieces they should go in a soaking solution, most likely high alkaline to remove dirt then an electrolytic cleaner to remove the dirt, opposite to plating, pulls off the crap. Then rinsed and put in and left in a nickel strip solution, usually overnight, too long wont affect the base metal. Rinsed off then into a hydrochloric acid solution to remove any rust. Then rinsed, dried and time to manually polish. Have you told them the type of finish you would like puss1966? After polishing back into the alkaline soaking solution to soften remove polishing compounds then into the electrolytic cleaner then rinsed, then into a copper solution for a 'flash'. This isn't always done but will show if the plating ahead will take. Should the copper not be even all over, re-do. After the copper, rinse then into the nickel solution for about 15-20 mins then rinse and dry.
Sometimes manual polishing wont leave a nice even finish on the substrate and some electroplating places will aggressively polish the metal to remove the imperfection which will result in 'dragging' which you will notice around the edges of holes and cut outs. To do it right IMO the metal needs to be left for some time, depending on the 'damage', in an acid copper solution which is like in painting terms a 'high build primer'. The plating will build up on the piece and when sufficient you polish back the acid copper plating which in effect fills the rust damage, imperfections. This process may need to be done several times and is quite time consuming. A piece of polished acid copper plated metal/plastic has a mirror finish which when put through nickel and if desired into chrome will look amazing. The acid copper process also adds that extra level of corrosion resistance. All this work, different solutions, water running constantly in rinse tanks, costs of removal of dangerous solutions, filtering of solutions, the filters themselves etc makes for electroplating to be a costly business to run hence the pricing.

Rob1966
12th November 2015, 12:00 PM
Boy you know a hell of a lot about electroplating lol , but yes I do realise there is a lot involved and in all honesty I was quite prepared to pay the $240 but then the $120 quote come along so went with it, I must admit though I think the $500 quote was a bit over the top looking at the other two.


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jason1
12th November 2015, 06:49 PM
$120 is bloody cheap, I mean really really cheap, I get allot of plating done and I wouldnt get that much done for $120 even on my account, so very good qoute, the $250 mark would have been my guess. at that price you should plate everything you can think of getting done on your game lol

I love nickle plating, it is so damn nice,

Gemini2544
12th November 2015, 07:13 PM
I just hope it's not a too good to be true type of deal.

Rob1966
12th November 2015, 07:26 PM
Keep tuned in I will update when I get them back.
I just hope it's not a too good to be true type of deal.

illawarra_steelers
12th November 2015, 07:50 PM
will be interested rob to see how you go..did you have to post the items?

Rob1966
12th November 2015, 10:17 PM
Yeah Tony I posted them down it was a lot cheaper at $14.30 compared to driving down an hour and a half each way to Melbourne so even with the postage still a good deal IMO.
will be interested rob to see how you go..did you have to post the items?

Rob1966
18th November 2015, 07:08 PM
Ok finally got to go out and do a little more work on covergirl tonight, I just recieved my delivery of new side rails from JPD today so thanks Jeff it's amazing what a little bit of new metal does to the appearence of a machine.
So old rails
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04193_zpsmzuoanm9.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04193_zpsmzuoanm9.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04194_zpsntrlesxq.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04194_zpsntrlesxq.jpg.html)
And fitting the new rails also installed new twist nails from PBR.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04195_zpsr2hhfgju.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04195_zpsr2hhfgju.jpg.html)
Such a difference new rails make
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04196_zpsqhgclcxy.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04196_zpsqhgclcxy.jpg.html)
Now just have to wait for the other metal bits and pieces to come back from getting nickel plated.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04198_zpszcnodkvu.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04198_zpszcnodkvu.jpg.html)

thejudge
18th November 2015, 07:11 PM
The front looks excellent, as does the rest of cause :)
I'm about to start restoring my coin door, how did you get it to looks so good, is it new?

Rob1966
18th November 2015, 07:32 PM
Yes it,s new you can find so many reproduced parts these days, and if there is something that can be replaced with new or be replated it is going to be done on this restore I want her to look as close to new as you can get.


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Jesder
18th November 2015, 07:44 PM
The rails from Jeff are top quality and they look great! It really compliments the rest of the work you've done on the machine.

Railways
18th November 2015, 08:02 PM
The rails from Jeff are top quality and they look great! It really compliments the rest of the work you've done on the machine.:redfaceAw shucks. Happy to help even though it took awhile to get them there. It certainly is turning out to be a nice ol' "girl" puss1966 nice job, it'll be better than brand new I reckon.

Davefjedi
18th November 2015, 08:54 PM
WOW just read this thread from the start
GREAT job. Feel like another stencil job ?? http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/77334-Gottlieb-s-PlayBall-not-really-a-restore-thread-just-a-get-working-thread wink wink nudge nudge

jason1
18th November 2015, 09:14 PM
coming along very nicely, your on the home stretch

Rob1966
18th November 2015, 09:55 PM
Go on give it a go :023:that machine would look brilliant restored and these old Gotlieb's had such simple cab artwork to re-produce, If I can do it anyone can the most important thing is dont rush it take your time.
WOW just read this thread from the start
GREAT job. Feel like another stencil job ?? http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/77334-Gottlieb-s-PlayBall-not-really-a-restore-thread-just-a-get-working-thread wink wink nudge nudge

Oldskool1969
18th November 2015, 10:08 PM
Really nice work Dude, but, I really liked the look of original cabinet as the patina just suits the era.

Rob1966
18th November 2015, 10:20 PM
Thats cool I respect your opinion some people like to keep them original with all the patina and carved names in the cab of people declaring their love for each other, but I really wanted to take on this project so bad and I am really happy with the way it has turned out.:)
Really nice work Dude, but, I really liked the look of original cabinet as the patina just suits the era.

jason1
18th November 2015, 11:23 PM
Thats cool I respect your opinion some people like to keep them original with all the patina and carved names in the cab of people declaring their love for each other, but I really wanted to take on this project so bad and I am really happy with the way it has turned out.:)

The next step from patina is rot, so restorations keep games alive.
There isn't many years left for a game that has patina before it goes past that point and starts falling apart. Patina as some people do like too forget is the middle stages of terminal rust and wood rot, and while it can look ok with that patina it doesn't just stop rotting magically, it will continue to rot until it is either addressed or it falls to pieces

this sort of action does preserve games in the long run

Oldskool1969
19th November 2015, 07:30 AM
Totally agree, but it looked very nice to me in the photos. Believe me I understand as my 2001 was rotten and had to do a full job on her too. I am just saying I really like an old machine y look old. Not bagging PUSS1966 at all Dude.

jason1
19th November 2015, 07:56 AM
Totally agree, but it looked very nice to me in the photos. Believe me I understand as my 2001 was rotten and had to do a full job on her too. I am just saying I really like an old machine y look old. Not bagging PUSS1966 at all Dude.

nah i Know you not bagging, and I know what you mean, :) and good job on resto of the 2001

Fire_Power
19th November 2015, 08:28 AM
Looks great. What's under the heads of the leg bolts?

Rob1966
19th November 2015, 12:14 PM
Looks great. What's under the heads of the leg bolts?

They are nylon washers I had some left over from when I put my Kiss LE together, they just prevent the bolts from grinding away into the metal everytime you do them up and after awhile all that grinding away attracts the dreaded rust


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Rob1966
19th November 2015, 12:21 PM
Totally agree, but it looked very nice to me in the photos. Believe me I understand as my 2001 was rotten and had to do a full job on her too. I am just saying I really like an old machine y look old. Not bagging PUSS1966 at all Dude.

I wasn't offended by your comments at all I realise everyone has different opinions or preferences and it would be a pretty boring world if everyone liked the same things.


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illawarra_steelers
19th November 2015, 12:53 PM
imo out of all the eras of em pins the 1960 to 1964 era really pop when have a ground up restore..when a cab is done properly (like this one) they just shine..

looking forward to seeing the return of the metal that has been sent out to being rechromed..this will really make her really stand out.

when i bought this game originally a few years ago this was always the intension.

goodolddays
19th November 2015, 03:22 PM
They are nylon washers I had some left over from when I put my Kiss LE together, they just prevent the bolts from grinding away into the metal everytime you do them up and after awhile all that grinding away attracts the dreaded rust


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I like the nylon washer idea . Never thought of that one

Rob1966
19th November 2015, 07:25 PM
I hope the old girl is starting to look like you envisioned her to look like Tony
imo out of all the eras of em pins the 1960 to 1964 era really pop when have a ground up restore..when a cab is done properly (like this one) they just shine..

looking forward to seeing the return of the metal that has been sent out to being rechromed..this will really make her really stand out.

when i bought this game originally a few years ago this was always the intension.

jason1
19th November 2015, 07:34 PM
I hope the old girl is starting to look like you envisioned her to look like Tony

He is probably upset he sold it now lol

Rob1966
30th December 2015, 11:42 AM
Hooray finally some parts arrived today from the platers and I have been hanging out to get back into this project.

Before pics
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04104_zpsgsbqc7xk.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04104_zpsgsbqc7xk.jpg.html)

These pics are after I tried cleaning them and then gave up
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04184_zpsjcfob12o.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04184_zpsjcfob12o.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04185_zpsprk8pyua.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04185_zpsprk8pyua.jpg.html)

And this is what arrived in the post today and I am stoked with the way they came out they look better than new

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/chr1_zpsjuymlbwx.jpeg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/chr1_zpsjuymlbwx.jpeg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/chr_zpst9jvihuj.jpeg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/chr_zpst9jvihuj.jpeg.html)
Off to Bunnings to try get some new screws if I cant find anything that is going to work right I will clean up the old ones, will update later if I get the time to do any work on it later today

jason1
30th December 2015, 11:51 AM
Very nice did you go nickle or chrome?

money well spent

Rob1966
30th December 2015, 12:02 PM
Nickle the photos don't do them justice as they were taken on my iPhone and just couldn't get the lighting right
and as for money well spent total all up cost ended up being $130 and that included the postage back to me talk about being happy with that, they took a bit longer to do than expected but I think they were swamped by the Christmas rush.( Would I recommend them and use their service again, hell yeah:))

illawarra_steelers
30th December 2015, 12:09 PM
amazing and going to really make that game pop..

was that $130 for those parts or are there others? i am gathering the parts up for my oklahoma and you have inspired to get my done now.

jason1
30th December 2015, 12:38 PM
Nickle the photos don't do them justice as they were taken on my iPhone and just couldn't get the lighting right
and as for money well spent total all up cost ended up being $130 and that included the postage back to me talk about being happy with that, they took a bit longer to do than expected but I think they were swamped by the Christmas rush.( Would I recommend them and use their service again, hell yeah:))


very good choice, Nickle is much nicer, has just the right amount of shine for games of this era and not over the top like chrome.

thats gonna look stunning. great work mate and good price

as for plating it always takes a while for them to do it i found, my electroplater has taken upto a month to plate stuff for me, they are always swamped and good platers seem to always be busy.
I usually let them take their time cos they do a great job, you have found a good electroplater so thats good

Rob1966
30th December 2015, 12:39 PM
$130 was for everything that you can see in the photos and the place was Nunawading Master Electroplating 3/3Carrum Downs Victoria 3201 she actually under charged me for the postage the actual postage was only $15 though so if you cant get a good deal locally it might be worth posting them down as my quotes varied from $120 to $500 and each place was emailed exactly the same pictures

illawarra_steelers
30th December 2015, 05:00 PM
thanks for the info rob, will contact them next week and orgainise to send down all the parts off oklahoma.

Rob1966
30th December 2015, 08:36 PM
Ok so I did get a chance to get out tonight to get a fair bit done first up the parts that come back I had to put a new foam buffer on the strip that the playfield glass slides up to got it from Bunnings if anyone's interested,
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/cv15_zpsbi3zgrfe.jpeg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/cv15_zpsbi3zgrfe.jpeg.html)

Next up was to replace the old gromets with nice brand new ones

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/cv14_zpsnkwarif8.jpeg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/cv14_zpsnkwarif8.jpeg.html)

And this is the both pieces fitted back onto the machine

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/cv13_zpsotxfj3jm.jpeg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/cv13_zpsotxfj3jm.jpeg.html)

And the coin slots and inside front strip fitted

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/cv1_zpson6yul4t.jpeg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/cv1_zpson6yul4t.jpeg.html)

And the machine with the backglass reinstalled and a brand new tempered playfield glass fitted for crystal clear playing

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/cv11_zps3yuptb2i.jpeg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/cv11_zps3yuptb2i.jpeg.html)

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/cv12_zpso7mcie4r.jpeg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/cv12_zpso7mcie4r.jpeg.html)

It has all come up pretty good I think but there is only one thing that I am not happy with and I am chasing up now is a new backglass, at the bottom I tried to touch up some crazing at the bottom and I think the paint I used has reacted with the ink and it has made it worse and I am now kicking my self for bloody touching it but I do have a lead I just have to convince them to post it to me here in Australia.

felixthadog
30th December 2015, 09:32 PM
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/cv12_zpso7mcie4r.jpeg

That looks bloody awesome mate, well done :023:

Cheers,
Matthew

illawarra_steelers
31st December 2015, 05:23 AM
if it's ron webb you want to get the glass off he wont ship to oz anymore and that's a pity as his glasses are the best..

these guys will ship to australia: http://bgresto.com/?p=1002

what an amazing job you have done..this was always the plan when i first bought her about 5 years ago..so very happy to see her shine like new again.

Rich
31st December 2015, 06:00 AM
Your patience and labour of love has resulted in an all round beautiful pin, well done!
The plating looks very nice too, I don't see any lines or nickel build up on the edges which means a top polishing job was done to reduce time needed in the nickel bath.

furballx
31st December 2015, 07:31 AM
It has all come up pretty good I think ..........

That would be the understatement of the year!
:)

JOKERPOKER
31st December 2015, 07:56 AM
+1 to what Tony said if it is Ron Webb. I got a replacement for my Sweet Hearts but i had it shipped to Herb Silvers and he then sent it out with my machine shipment.
Just a thought, can you get the glass sent to Jason in Vegas and then he might be able to ship it in one of his next container shipments. But then more costs and longer wait. Hmmm I will keep thinking.

Oh beautiful game by the way, looking fantastic.

Rob1966
31st December 2015, 08:09 AM
Yep it is Ron Webb and I haven't given up on him yet I sent him a message and this was his reply, and at least he didn't say no!

( Let me check what the total girth is, the reason I stopped was because some countries have a girth less than 100" and I cannot safely get it there. Give me about a week )


+1 to what Tony said if it is Ron Webb. I got a replacement for my Sweet Hearts but i had it shipped to Herb Silvers and he then sent it out with my machine shipment.
Just a thought, can you get the glass sent to Jason in Vegas and then he might be able to ship it in one of his next container shipments. But then more costs and longer wait. Hmmm I will keep thinking.

Oh beautiful game by the way, looking fantastic.

goodolddays
31st December 2015, 09:08 AM
awesome job ! Your game looks fantastic and a new backglass would be icing on the cake , though from your pics your current one looks pretty good, especially for its age

Rob1966
31st December 2015, 10:47 AM
If you get up close its really noticeable at the bottom but if I get the new one I will frame this one up in a box that looks like a wedege head backbox and light it up.
awesome job ! Your game looks fantastic and a new backglass would be icing on the cake , though from your pics your current one looks pretty good, especially for its age

Rich
31st December 2015, 01:31 PM
this is just a suggestion, but thinking about the screws you have used to put the newly plated 'bar'? that the screws go in horizontally at the rear under the playfield glass, they are blue in colour as they are zinc plated.....if you want to keep the look more original you could buff/polish some stainless ones.......and whilst looking at that 'bar' the rubber stoppers/grommets, um, what purpose do they serve?
Aren't the rubber pieces meant to be underneath for when the playfield is lowered back into place?

Rob1966
31st December 2015, 05:42 PM
Not 100% what purpose they serve but no they cant go underneath they can only go on the way that you see and it is exactly the way that it come out of the machine so beats me:unsure
this is just a suggestion, but thinking about the screws you have used to put the newly plated 'bar'? that the screws go in horizontally at the rear under the playfield glass, they are blue in colour as they are zinc plated.....if you want to keep the look more original you could buff/polish some stainless ones.......and whilst looking at that 'bar' the rubber stoppers/grommets, um, what purpose do they serve?
Aren't the rubber pieces meant to be underneath for when the playfield is lowered back into place?

illawarra_steelers
1st February 2016, 12:47 PM
rob, where did you get those black grommets in post number 96?

Rob1966
1st February 2016, 07:42 PM
From this guy on Ebay not sure if he has any left but its worth a message, if he cant help you and you only need a couple I could probably help you out by sending you a couple.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/301817265580?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


rob, where did you get those black grommets in post number 96?

Mr Pinbologist
4th February 2016, 06:53 AM
VERY NICE!! The game has come up a treat.

Rob1966
17th March 2016, 08:17 PM
No progress to talk about just a delivery that turned up today from the Pinball Recource PBR, toppers for my EM machines one for Covergirl and one for King Pin its getting there slowly but i just have such little time to get out to the shed these days with work being so hectic but she we get there eventually.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04354_zpswczsjtos.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04354_zpswczsjtos.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04356_zpsgmo6zmj5.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04356_zpsgmo6zmj5.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04358_zpshkmhslou.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04358_zpshkmhslou.jpg.html)
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll177/puss1966/DSC04357_zpsblggmwaq.jpg (http://s288.photobucket.com/user/puss1966/media/DSC04357_zpsblggmwaq.jpg.html)

pocketscience
17th March 2016, 09:34 PM
Very cool - I have one of the toppers, but need to get a frame for it. I think PBR sell them separately. They really set your games off!


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jason1
17th March 2016, 09:42 PM
I must admit When I read in the recent posts section that you bought a topper for this game I was thinking WTF. but now seeing it, very cool, nothing like i had pictured in my head, congrats

Rob1966
17th March 2016, 09:59 PM
Yes you can get the frame seperately he diddnt have any of the brackets when i first enquired so i had to wait for two months for them to come in, so if you act quick he has them in stock now
Very cool - I have one of the toppers, but need to get a frame for it. I think PBR sell them separately. They really set your games off!


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illawarra_steelers
18th March 2016, 12:18 PM
maybe contact lee at pinball rescue, not sure if they have any left but they used this original from my collection to redo them about 10 years ago.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj101/illawarra_steelers/20160318_125337_zpsf22htast.jpg

Rob1966
18th March 2016, 02:59 PM
They were my first port of call tony and he was good about it but wasn't interested in doing them again


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pocketscience
18th March 2016, 03:40 PM
I got the last one Lee had last year..


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pinballist
19th March 2016, 05:35 AM
I guess it wouldn't be too hard to recreate if you had a scan or clear photo taken square-on of the image, and then print out on waterslide decal...

Hey Puss1966,
I just whipped this up on the iPad using Photoshop Touch from those darkish photo you posted of the toppers on the bed.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160318/176834a450336eede3504361af81b30c.jpg

If anyone can take a good evenly lit high resolution picture of their topper I could do a much better job and share it out here if someone want a go at printing it out on waterslide.


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Rob1966
19th March 2016, 08:56 PM
They are actually printed on thick gloss cardboard, and slide into the holder no need for water slide decals


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pinballist
19th March 2016, 08:59 PM
Oh wow so you just print it on white cardboard, make a nice frame for it and you're done!

Anybody want to share a full resolution photo? [emoji6]


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Rob1966
20th March 2016, 09:29 AM
Not sure how the copyright side of things would go on a public forum, especially with Gotliebs stringent copyright policy.


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pinballist
20th March 2016, 09:43 AM
Yeah you never know in this litigious world we live in, the USA has made lawsuits an art form LOL!


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Rob1966
8th September 2017, 10:20 AM
https://www.flickr.com/gp/152056461@N04/986tBu
Don't mind me guys I'm just checking to see whether I can share pics from my Flickr account now that photo bucket has gone stupid, so this is just a test pic and if it works I will painstakingly try to restore the pics in my thread


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Oh well it didn't work like I wanted it to so what accounts are everyone else using to share pics so that the pics come up and not the link ( Damn you photo bucket)

Rob1966
27th March 2018, 09:16 PM
After over two years from when I started the restore on this old girl I have finally with the help of Stu Pinballer I finally have the missing piece to finish this puzzle, the original backglass that came with the machine had a bit of crackling that I tried to touch up because it annoyed me when you played a game and you could see the lights through the cracks.
So I thought I would touch it up a bit (big mistake) the paint I used reacted with the backglass paint and about 4 inches of paint that I touched up bubbled up and flaked off.
I couldnít stand looking at it so I got Garry Conway from the States to make me up a translight which wasnít that cheap I might add and when it turned up I was never happy with it but put up with it hoping that one day one might find a repo one.
Tried Bgresto with no luck, tried Ron Webb at the pinballglass homestead who for over a year gave me false hope that he would send me one but later let me down big time. Then finally In December 2017 Stu who lives locally let me know that he was getting some stuff brought in from the States and offered to put my glass in with his shipment, well the new backglass has finally arrived and is now installed in the machine and I canít begin to explain how much of a difference it has made Iím stoked so a big thanks to Pinballer who without I never would have been truly happy with the end result with this restore.
That new glass as it arrived
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/99cb08fa2df7afef901ba7f8de19aaf1.jpg
The two glasses side by side so you can see the difference in the washed out colours in the translight version on the right
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/977a106bc58d973fcf2034fab4366915.jpg
The backs of the two glasses

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/2dcd4f4b6fc9c3c9bd886d31afa2c500.jpg
The new glass installed
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/0734c3ebe4e959c16e9527b2b200075f.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/1554bbb40004c24dba9b5eebb6bef0ac.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180327/990fa3cd00cf2aafab424a7651c3f89a.jpg


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oldhank
27th March 2018, 10:27 PM
Love it great job this and tropic isle are my favorite ems

Rob1966
27th March 2018, 10:39 PM
Love it great job this and tropic isle are my favorite ems

Itís such a great game to play the satisfaction you get when everything goes right and you collect all 12 girls to get 2 credits, which then lights the gobble holes and if the 150 light is lit and you hit it in the gobble hole you get an extra 3 credits for a total of 5 credits.


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jason1
27th March 2018, 10:39 PM
very nice and I do like those toppers

ddstoys
28th March 2018, 06:12 AM
Beautiful


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oldhank
28th March 2018, 07:37 AM
I think a alternative back glass with pin up girls of the erawold be awesome bettie page tempest storm etc

Pinballer
29th March 2018, 04:28 PM
Looks good Rob, always nice to complete a machine with a nice backglass. What's your next project?

Rob1966
29th March 2018, 07:22 PM
Looks good Rob, always nice to complete a machine with a nice backglass. What's your next project?

Love to do another old Gotlieb Stu but whenever they come up there always interstate and to expensive
.so will just keep my eyes open till the right one comes along


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Pinballer
29th March 2018, 09:34 PM
What are you looking for specifically?

Rob1966
29th March 2018, 09:41 PM
Love to do another 60s, 70s Gotlieb or something similar, I love the pre 80s era


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