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Rich
24th May 2015, 09:19 AM
A friend of mine bought an old arcade game from someone here on the forum and he has got around to getting it working.
I can't tell you the name of the game as it doesn't have one.
Anyway, he asked if he could use trailer wire as opposed to using 240 volt rated wire.
The game uses 240 volts to run a motor and lighting and 6 volts for some small globes.
I told him it would depend on the current it uses, more current, thicker wire. Is this so?
Can someone please explain it in simple terms?
Thanks.

Johns-Arcade
24th May 2015, 09:32 AM
A friend of mine bought an old arcade game from someone here on the forum and he has got around to getting it working.
I can't tell you the name of the game as it doesn't have one.
Anyway, he asked if he could use trailer wire as opposed to using 240 volt rated wire.
The game uses 240 volts to run a motor and lighting and 6 volts for some small globes.
I told him it would depend on the current it uses, more current, thicker wire. Is this so?
Can someone please explain it in simple terms?
Thanks.

Trailer wire isn't rated for 240V use, and this has nothing to do with the current carrying capacity of the wire, rather the insulation type on the wire itself.

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.

kingsarcades
24th May 2015, 09:33 AM
When wiring 240 V , a lot of care is required. Most of these machines have been wired, and rewired by people without the expertise or skill required.
It is not just the size of the cable to consider, but the rating of the insulation, number of strands in the cable to suit the application intended etc.
Best get a qualified electrician to cast an eye over it and give you a qualified opinion. 240 V is deadly, and usually only gives you 1 chance.

Happypaintball
24th May 2015, 09:34 AM
Trailer wire is not suitable for 240
Simple terms anything needing 240V coming straight from a 240V power source needs to be 2.5MM Minimum The stuff used in houses (easiest way to explain it)
Anything coming from a 12V transformer to lights can be cable suitable for 12v Applications go to Jaycar or similar and they will give you the right cable

Johns-Arcade
24th May 2015, 09:39 AM
Trailer wire is not suitable for 240
Simple terms anything needing 240V coming straight from a 240V power source needs to be 2.5MM Minimum The stuff used in houses (easiest way to explain it)


I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. You can have a 1mm square power circuit in a house if you so desire, provided the circuit breaker is rated accordingly. If fact, most power cables used by appliances are .75mm square.

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.

Rich
24th May 2015, 09:51 AM
Thanks for all your replies, I will pass on that - where 240 volts is supplied use 240 volts rated wire.
This makes sense and yes it has been modified/hacked, someone removed the original transformer and replaced it with one that supplies 12 volts instead of 6.

Oldskool1969
24th May 2015, 10:04 AM
Double insulated outside the cabinet, single insulated inside the cabinet.
Cable has to be insulated. Cable is not the real issue, fuse protecting the wire is! Over rate the fuse for the cable and things go wrong, i.e. fuse does not blow in time to protect the cable.
Under rate the fuse and not a big deal as fuse blows before cable fails.
Any 240v work should be done by a licensed sparky.
The plug lead should be capable of handling current from up stream device before failing.
This is why your safety switch was implemented as they are excellent for quick tripping to prevent fires and shock!
Does his premise have an RCD? start there first. Sort of an insurance for the DIY Dudes.

Rich
24th May 2015, 10:26 AM
RCD? is this the same as an ELCB, earth leakage circuit breaker?

kingsarcades
24th May 2015, 10:31 AM
RCD = Residual Current Device .. ELCB ... Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker But yes same function, different name.

Happypaintball
24th May 2015, 10:41 AM
I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. You can have a 1mm square power circuit in a house if you so desire, provided the circuit breaker is rated accordingly. If fact, most power cables used by appliances are .75mm square.

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.

Any cable going from the meter board to power points in a house has to be 2.5mm minimum by law
Lighting can be a minimum 1mm
Yes appliances can use .75mm wire but they plug into the power points I was just trying to keep it simple so he did not overload and melt his cables or set fire to his house

Johns-Arcade
24th May 2015, 10:53 AM
Any cable going from the meter board to power points in a house has to be 2.5mm minimum by law
Lighting can be a minimum 1mm
Yes appliances can use .75mm wire but they plug into the power points I was just trying to keep it simple so he did not overload and melt his cables or set fire to his house

Are you an electrician?

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.

kingsarcades
24th May 2015, 12:09 PM
Are you an electrician?

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.

Apparently NOT

angs1957
24th May 2015, 12:58 PM
You guys are getting a bit technical for him, simply you rate the cable for the load drawn in amps (amount of current the load draws) depending on its application. There are different standards associated with fixed wiring as opposed to appliance wiring. Just make sure that you are protected at the switchboard and if it was me I would use a cable that is double insulated

wiredoug
24th May 2015, 01:30 PM
Simple answer. Walk past the trailer wire to the extension cords. Strip one down.

Rich
24th May 2015, 05:04 PM
Jst notist I splelt trailer rong. DOH!
Thanks for all the replies.
My mate is getting it going and selling it to one of his mates. He hasn't worked on an amusement machine before.
It has a few leaf switches a transformer, some general 240V lighting and 6V lighting for the doors/letterboxes you manage to.... ? I dunno, there's a large red drum with small cast doors on it driven by a 240V motor and as the drum rotates you turn a wheel which moves a figure and try to flick open the doors, as this happens the door opened switches the associated 6V light.
The 240V wiring is falling off it's so brittle.

coolspot
24th May 2015, 05:26 PM
Are you an electrician?

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.

minimum size for house wiring is 2.5mm and lighting 1.5mm and i have done all my electrical training

dezbaz
24th May 2015, 05:28 PM
Personally I don't like soldering Household wire as the soldering iron melts the insulation, and deforms it.

As a sparky, I also prefer the ext cord inners. Even the 2 core leads off downlights provides good brown (Active) and blue (neutral) wires

I use this below as a "guide". It's close enough and easy to remember
0.75mm sq = 7.5A
1.00 mm sq = 10A
etc etc

kingsarcades
24th May 2015, 05:31 PM
minimum size for house wiring is 2.5mm and lighting 1.5mm and i have done all my electrical training

So you are a qualified electrician then ?

Johns-Arcade
24th May 2015, 05:37 PM
minimum size for house wiring is 2.5mm and lighting 1.5mm and i have done all my electrical training

Really? If you say so. I guess I better remove all that 1mm square T & E from my new house!

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.

wiredoug
24th May 2015, 05:40 PM
So you are a qualified electrician then ?

lets drag it back to the topic because its still essentially the same message.

To do appliance wiring you dont have to be 'an electrician' .. you DO need to be a 'competent person' <as in the legal term>

Its pretty safe to assume your mate who has never done it before is not 'a competent person'... the choice of wire is really not the biggest issue in his world right now... pay someone who does this for a living to do it properly.. it wont cost much, it wont burn your ( oops sorry his) house down .. and everyone can sleep at night.

Johns-Arcade
24th May 2015, 05:45 PM
lets drag it back to the topic because its still essentially the same message.

To do appliance wiring you dont have to be 'an electrician' .. you DO need to be a 'competent person' <as in the legal term>

Its pretty safe to assume your mate who has never done it before is not 'a competent person'... the choice of wire is really not the biggest issue in his world right now... pay someone who does this for a living to do it properly.. it wont cost much, it wont burn your ( oops sorry his) house down .. and everyone can sleep at night.

I'll think you'll find kingsarcades was as curious as me with all this advise from people that seem to be in the know, that aren't.

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.

wiredoug
24th May 2015, 05:57 PM
I'll think you'll find kingsarcades was as curious as me with all this advise from people that seem to be in the know, that aren't.

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.

oh yeah sorry .. i meant the bigger picture of the thread.. you are totally correct

- - - Updated - - -

I read the thread again ... some of these posters ... yeah you sure do have a point :)

hotty
25th May 2015, 08:42 PM
Simple answer. Walk past the trailer wire to the extension cords. Strip one down.

when in doubt get a qualified sparky he will be the next best thing to a smoke detector.

Rich
26th May 2015, 12:13 PM
lets drag it back to the topic because its still essentially the same message.

To do appliance wiring you dont have to be 'an electrician' .. you DO need to be a 'competent person' <as in the legal term>

Its pretty safe to assume your mate who has never done it before is not 'a competent person'... the choice of wire is really not the biggest issue in his world right now... pay someone who does this for a living to do it properly.. it wont cost much, it wont burn your ( oops sorry his) house down .. and everyone can sleep at night.

Wiredoug, no need to be sorry, this post I put up was legit, not a query for me using the old "oh, my mate.........".
Here is the machine http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/57069-Looking-for-valuation-advice-about-an-old-EM-arcade-machine/page2

kingsarcades
26th May 2015, 12:30 PM
Wiredoug, no need to be sorry, this post I put up was legit, not a query for me using the old "oh, my mate.........".
Here is the machine http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/57069-Looking-for-valuation-advice-about-an-old-EM-arcade-machine/page2

Oh !!! you may need divine intervention as well as a sparky if it is the horse game in question.
Bit of history there with the climbing monkey coin pusher style machine.

Rich
26th May 2015, 01:20 PM
Oh !!! you may need divine intervention as well as a sparky if it is the horse game in question.
Bit of history there with the climbing monkey coin pusher style machine.

Got me interested, can you elaborate on the climbing monkey coin pusher please?

Gemini2544
26th May 2015, 04:03 PM
By the picture, No idea what that is.

kingsarcades
26th May 2015, 04:42 PM
Got me interested, can you elaborate on the climbing monkey coin pusher please?

A penny is inserted in the slot in the side, then flick the front lever and get the coin to spin all the way around the loop.
The idea is to get the coin to drop in the top of the tree, and the monkey goes up 1 notch, coin returns for next shot .. etc. etc
Some returned your coin if you made it all the way to the center. Just a fun Kids thing.

78546

WOKA
26th May 2015, 04:50 PM
Thread. Rated...

wiredoug
26th May 2015, 04:53 PM
Thread. Rated...

quick there goes woka ... GET HIM

Rich
26th May 2015, 06:23 PM
No, I know that machine, I call them a win-ezy, I thought you knew a bit about the one with the wheel on the front, the one that prompted this thread.

hotty
26th May 2015, 06:44 PM
[QUOTE=wiredoug;914317]lets drag it back to the topic because its still essentially the same message.

To do appliance wiring you dont have to be 'an electrician' .. you DO need to be a 'competent person' <as in the legal term>


You might want to be more specific with that advice, would you consider an oven an appliance?(it is) and must be installed by a LEM unless it has its own lead already installed by the manufacturer. But your advice is understood by competent persons.

wiredoug
26th May 2015, 07:22 PM
lets drag it back to the topic because its still essentially the same message.

To do appliance wiring you dont have to be 'an electrician' .. you DO need to be a 'competent person' <as in the legal term>


You might want to be more specific with that advice, would you consider an oven an appliance?(it is) and must be installed by a LEM unless it has its own lead already installed by the manufacturer. But your advice is understood by competent persons.


gah .. theres one at every party.. ok If i owned an oven factory or wanted to repair an old oven i would ensure the assembly workers were competent persons... if i wanted to instal the oven i would see it was done by an electrician.

otoh ... if the thread was about arcade machines ...

kingsarcades
26th May 2015, 07:37 PM
No, I know that machine, I call them a win-ezy, I thought you knew a bit about the one with the wheel on the front, the one that prompted this thread.

Then why did you ask about the monkey, I quote you ( Got me interested, can you elaborate on the climbing monkey coin pusher please? )

Rich
27th May 2015, 07:29 AM
Then why did you ask about the monkey, I quote you ( Got me interested, can you elaborate on the climbing monkey coin pusher please? )

I overlooked the name on the front and thought you were referring to 'pusher' under the coin mech in the steering game.
At the base of the coin mech is some sort of compression device that has a piston that gets pushed down, closes one set of contacts, opens another and on its slow return back to rest resets the contacts.
Not sure but it seems to be a delay device.

hotty
27th May 2015, 11:16 AM
gah .. theres one at every party.. ok If i owned an oven factory or wanted to repair an old oven i would ensure the assembly workers were competent persons... if i wanted to instal the oven i would see it was done by an electrician.

otoh ... if the thread was about arcade machines ...
Thats why they invented the IEC plug and socket(aka kettle cord) Saves a lot of lives.

blue95
29th May 2015, 12:18 AM
We had a little crt tv come into work a while back, it belonged to an old lady that lived in a retirement home. It had a long power lead that someone added that was red and black auto wire and it had a safety tag on it.

Gemini2544
29th May 2015, 05:21 PM
We had a little crt tv come into work a while back, it belonged to an old lady that lived in a retirement home. It had a long power lead that someone added that was red and black auto wire and it had a safety tag on it.

What a dangerous situation! Hard to believe though, my wife works in retirement & nothing gets in unless checked by the company electrician. Your experience may have be done by an idiot with a license. :o

kingsarcades
29th May 2015, 05:55 PM
What a dangerous situation! Hard to believe though, my wife works in retirement & nothing gets in unless checked by the company electrician. Your experience may have be done by an idiot with a license. :o

Unfortunately, you don't have to be a qualified electrician to tag and test. After a 2 week course you can be let loose on the unsuspecting public.

wiredoug
29th May 2015, 06:13 PM
Unfortunately, you don't have to be a qualified electrician to tag and test. After a 2 week course you can be let loose on the unsuspecting public.

pretty sure its only a day in vic ... if the green light comes on the PAT its safe right?

Johns-Arcade
29th May 2015, 06:17 PM
pretty sure its only a day in vic ... if the green light comes on the PAT its safe right?





Yep, then stick ya tag on the lead and fill out the invoice! :laugh:

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.

wiredoug
29th May 2015, 06:22 PM
Yep, then stick ya tag on the lead and fill out the invoice! :laugh:

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.




get a load of this ..
http://www.acme-test-tagging.com.au/one-day-test-tag-course-melbourne/

anyone with a clue who can read that and still think the tag is worth the paper its written on scares me

Johns-Arcade
29th May 2015, 06:28 PM
get a load of this ..
http://www.acme-test-tagging.com.au/one-day-test-tag-course-melbourne/

anyone with a clue who can read that and still think the tag is worth the paper its written on scares me

All that in one day! :lol

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.

wiredoug
29th May 2015, 06:30 PM
All that in one day! :lol

Regards,

Johns-Arcade.

yep .. no experience required. we should go do it lol

hotty
29th May 2015, 06:32 PM
And to think back in the day I used a megger to do this test and tag and then fixed the problem. These days no pass no fix no idea!

Johns-Arcade
29th May 2015, 06:36 PM
yep .. no experience required. we should go do it lol

Sign me up Doug! Do we really need to attend, or just pay our money and wait for our certificate in the mail? ;)

Regards,

Johns-Arcade

wiredoug
29th May 2015, 06:39 PM
And to think back in the day I used a megger to do this test and tag and then fixed the problem. These days no pass no fix no idea!

Experience counts for nothing. Im not allowed to do the test with anything EXCEPT a PAT tester... but a worker with no experience except a one day course is allowed to do it with one..

hotty
29th May 2015, 06:40 PM
By the way its suitable for All Genders??????

hotty
29th May 2015, 06:42 PM
Experience counts for nothing. Im not allowed to do the test with anything EXCEPT a PAT tester... but a worker with no experience except a one day course is allowed to do it with one..
But at least you will have an idea of the inherent dangers of faulty equipment, they don't, and you don't learn that in a day.

wiredoug
29th May 2015, 06:42 PM
Sign me up Doug! Do we really need to attend, or just pay our money and wait for our certificate in the mail? ;)

Regards,

Johns-Arcade


you can send a cornflakes packet with your picture stuck on it in your place but you really dont want to miss the party we would have in the back row of that course :-)

- - - Updated - - -


By the way its suitable for All Genders??????

lol... sounds like you got something to tell the class?

wiredoug
29th May 2015, 06:45 PM
But at least you will have an idea of the inherent dangers of faulty equipment, they don't.

thats my point exactly .. the system is broken.

Granox
13th June 2015, 10:41 AM
Where does the guy live? If he is on the Gold Coast he can bring it to me and I'll do it for free. Yes I am a qualified and licensed electrician and electronic technician also and a licensed electrical contractor as well.

Rich
13th June 2015, 10:55 AM
Where does the guy live? If he is on the Gold Coast he can bring it to me and I'll do it for free. Yes I am a qualified and licensed electrician and electronic technician also and a licensed electrical contractor as well.

Nice of you to offer, he lives in Clayton down here where it's cold, yep, Victoria.
He's almost done doing it himself. A worm gear in the motor is having to get remade as it was chewed away.

Granox
13th June 2015, 10:58 AM
Experience counts for nothing. Im not allowed to do the test with anything EXCEPT a PAT tester... but a worker with no experience except a one day course is allowed to do it with one..
Of course you can still do it with a megger and meter just as long as they are within test actually the PAT must be within test also. Infact the PAT's I've seen don't do 3 phase equipment so you need your megger.