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kramer
5th October 2006, 10:11 PM
first of all big thanks to all the people that had input on my first thread about the globetrotter. i've come a fair way with it.

ok i had it working; and only because i didn't have replacement parts i bypassed the switch next to the flipper coils ( on my globetrotters). i now understand WHY these switches are there.

for anyone who remotely knows what i'm talking about there's a leaf switch that's always closed circuit next to the flipper coils ( one for each flipper coil) and when the button is pressed the power goes to the coil and then the switch goes open circuit because it is pushed open circuit by the coil assembly. that IS supposed to happen.

the reason for this is that the flipper coils have 2 coils inside them, one to activate, and then one to hold it there. of course bypassing this switch meant that the power was being applied to the main one all the time when the button was pressed. that's bad...

long story short, the flipper coils get VERY hot and smoke and melt etc.
i did have these one's smoking...

shortly after they stopped working ( my housemate was playing the machine) and it was smoking so he turned it off.

it blew the f4 fuse ( which has a 15A 250 volt fuse in it i might add) and now every time i replace the fuse and turn the machine on it instantly blows the fuse. this is really pissing me off as i've gone thru about 5 fuses so far just trying a few things...

i've looked at the schematic as best i can and my understanding is that f4 fuse goes to the solenoid controller board.

i've disconnected the solenoid controller board and it's still blowing that fkn fuse.

has anyone got any suggestions?

was fun for the few hours i DID have it working properly..
i suppose the next thing to do would be to disconnect the flipper coils and try another fuse? disconnecting the bypass didn't stop the fuse blowing either.

that'll teach me for being a dodgy impatient bastard. but it was a learning curve. oh and the diodes on each of the coils are to kill the negative magnetic field that is created from de-energising the coils.
see i'm learning!
kramer.

humpalot
5th October 2006, 10:29 PM
Everything is put there for a reason as you have now found out. Have a good read through the marvin web site http://www.marvin3m.com/fix.htm and learn how to repair correctly. I'd say that at least one of your coils are a dead short for a start, better grab yourself a multimeter if you don't already have one.

Pinball Warehouse
5th October 2006, 11:44 PM
Hi There, You will have to replace the 2 flipper coils, as these are now dead shorts causing f4 5amp slow blow to blow. Other concern is that the playfield fuse should have blown this is a 1amp slow blow. Other issue could be on the transformer board where the fuses are located, bridge rectifier br3 could have been blown. I hope you have learnt a valuable lesson here.

kramer
5th October 2006, 11:58 PM
yea i'm thinking the bridge rec. no major harm done. a couple of coils to replace is no biggy. this thing wasn't working when i got it so anything is better than that.

boxer i know you sell alot of gear on ebay. what's a couple of coils worth to you?

mayby even a spare rectifier board / power supply. would be handy.

do you run a shop or anything?

how come your always parting pinny's out? lol

i'll desolder those flippers and see if it still blows. i can't see how it can if they're not connected to the solenoid driver board. the only thing connected to the solenoid driver board is top right hand side where some op's removed the connector and soldered the wires directly to the board ( the J3 connector solenoid board) . i'll likely cut these and make a plug for them. i'd like to rebuild the boards and recap them.

curious why the underplayfield fuse didn't blow. it's a 1amp. there is a couple of other cut wires under there. not sure what they're for.

garuda might be so kind as to let me have a look under his globetrotter at the convention thing this weekend. i can take a couple pics then and figure out where they go. otherwise it's schematic reading time again!

any way to test the bridge rec?

i'll disconnect J1 and J3 of the rectifier board too and see what happens.
will go thru and test all the voltages. learning very fast :D

oh and by the way, your not a virgin poster now. welcome mate :)

got a multimeter and just stumbled across that page tonight. will read it and read it and print it!

frs
6th October 2006, 12:00 AM
If you didn't damage the playfield with those volcanic coils you could probly consider yourself lucky

ever seen magnet burn on a TAF? there's no getting rid of it

kramer
6th October 2006, 12:13 AM
naah man it didn't get THAT hot...
playfield is fine:evil

humpalot
6th October 2006, 07:50 AM
Now you have your multimeter and have started reading the marvin site, you can start troubleshooting. If you use the multimeter correctly it will tell you which parts need to be replaced. Personally I'd be checking every coil, diode, transisor and bridge. As for flipper coils and bridges, save yourself any problems and only buy new. http://www.marcospecialties.com/ have most parts at a resonable price, some tight arses here might say that postage is expensive, but I can't fault their service and now only buy through them. Items usually arrive within 2- 3 working days.

Ric
6th October 2006, 09:01 AM
i have an alterntive theory

is the case that when you press the flipper button the coil energises and then the F4 fuse blows?

I had this on my X's & O's (Bally 1983) - tried all the things from Clay/Marvin's guide but in the end I found that my EOS (end of stroke - the sswitch that is activated when the flippe reaches the top of its arc) was fried and casued the fuse to blow each time.

Look at the contacts on each switch on the flippers - if they are a grey/white colour chances are they are near the end of their life and should be replaced.

If the coil was smoking you are better off/probably need to replce it as the inner windings have most likely fused.

Good luck

Ric

Pinball Warehouse
6th October 2006, 12:11 PM
Hi, Its good to see you are learning about these fine machines, try to read and learn as much as you can about the workings of the pinballs. To check the bridge rectifer, the bridge is basically 4 diodes in a square shape, using your multi meter on diode check, check the 4 sides one at a time, if one side is shorted it will show up as .003 which is a dead short. I have plenty of new bally coils for $15 ea and I also have new end of stroke switches if you want to replace them also. I recently bought out a large job lot of pinball playfields and heaps of spare parts and circuit boards. I also wreck a lot of machines that have no backglass or bad damage in the cabinet or playfield. I like to think that for every pinball that I wreck, it helps bring back 3 or 4 other machines that have not been working for a long time. Long live pinball.
Give me a call on 0407116736 if you need any advice or help with anything.
regards Tony from Brisbane

kramer
10th October 2006, 11:23 PM
just an update for if anyone cares, i'm currently rebuilding the rectifier board with new bridge recs ( upgraded) with heatsinks, and new connectors ( these are a bitch of a job but still enjoyable none the less)

bridge rec 3 ( which controls the 43v dc to the solenoid relay etc was rooted.

good experience.

i think replacing all the connectors etc will make the machine very reliable and up the value.

will keep the thread updated.

terry007
11th October 2006, 12:14 AM
Exactly the same problem with my Gtb WChS. Solenoid fuse (48v DC) kept blowing, changed the BR and it all came good.
Out of interest the wires were soldered on the legs of the BR, seeing as the new onehad "spade" type connectors I used crimps on it so if it went bad again it will be easier to change.

kramer
11th October 2006, 12:19 AM
i know what you mean but i dont think it's very hard to change if it goes bad again.
i have a temp controlled solder station and a solder sucker. there is one BR on this board that's been replaced with a BR with crimp terminals.

in all likelyness it WON't go bad again since it's beefed up AND heatsinked. i like it when things are better than new.
there's also a original BR on the board that i'll replace just for fun :D

kramer
12th October 2006, 12:38 AM
ok rectifier board is all done. new rectifiers, resoldered all the connections and new connectors. heatsinked rectifiers too.
tested voltages and all are good. fuse is no longer blowing but i'll wait until the solenoid board and flipper coilsand EOS switches are replaced before plugging everything into the power supply. solenoid board is next!
i suppose doing everything right and upgrading any dodgy stuff should yeild about 10 years of trouble free operation.

Pinball Warehouse
12th October 2006, 11:43 PM
Good Lad, you have done very well, I'm proud of you. Keep up the good work.
the boxerdog

kramer
20th October 2006, 03:27 AM
alright, an update for anyone who cares. i've fixed / upgraded the solenoid driver board and also the MPU( about $50 worth of parts later). almost ready to go back in, just lacking flipper coils, EOS switches and a new pinball. also about time i cleaned the playfield and got the backglass triple thicked. that should be at least reasonably playable then, oh and not to forget the low amperage bulbs.
also picked up the second mata hari tonight. should be able to make 1 good one out of the 2 i have.
cant wait,
kramer.

The Pinny Parlour
20th October 2006, 08:33 AM
alright, an update for anyone who cares. i've fixed / upgraded the solenoid driver board and also the MPU( about $50 worth of parts later). almost ready to go back in, just lacking flipper coils, EOS switches and a new pinball. also about time i cleaned the playfield and got the backglass triple thicked. that should be at least reasonably playable then, oh and not to forget the low amperage bulbs.
also picked up the second mata hari tonight. should be able to make 1 good one out of the 2 i have.
cant wait,
kramer.

Well done Jon :)

DKong
20th October 2006, 03:05 PM
Sounds like its comiing along well..Reminds me of when I did my first playfield rebuild on my Tomcat. I had put it all together and was getting late but had to try it out..So I was playing for a while and then the right kicker started smoking. holy shit I thought, its going to fry that new plastic set, quickly turned it off and checked under the playfield ( for fires :o ) and just found a swollen HOT burnt out coil. So for the next few weeks I proceeded to pull the main driver board and change the transistor etc etc testing every component along that part of the schemetic..Nothing pulled my hair out for weeks to actually find that the switch was twisted together for the kicker to operate ..Man I was so pissed off that I didn't check it the first place:021:
But the best part is I learned a lot in those couple of weeks and prompted me to learn more..
Good luck with yours!

kramer
21st October 2006, 07:51 PM
cheers for your comments ian,

i hear ya dkong! learnt alot but better i learn the hard way. know them pretty well now and i guess it'll help give me confidence for when i want to totally strip a playfield and get it touched up properly.

met up with tony ( boxerdogfever) today and bought a bunch of gear for it so will try and get some work done tonight when my little girl's in bed. if i work hard i might have it ready for a game tonight.
still need to do one connector first also, and install alot of the new gear.
can't wait though. will update etc as i go.

talked to boxerdog about the wear around the thumper bumpers, i'd like to get some sort of like mylar or something to cover around there and protect the area. any thoughts people? i thought there were hard plastic thingo's you could get that sit directly on the playfield. other than that the playfields been factory mylar'ed so it should be reasonable when i clean it!

Pinball Warehouse
23rd October 2006, 11:05 PM
Hi Kramer, Whats the latest with globetrotter, how did it go with the new coils, just a thought, with the driver board, did you fry the flipper relay on the left hand side of that board, this could have happened when you soldered the end of strokes together.

kramer
23rd October 2006, 11:17 PM
hey mate, checked the board HV transistors to ground and would the one from 175 down to 160V. other one is fine.

she's all up and running. checked the coils, only smoked the right hand one.
my work on the boards has paid off and they're working fantastic.

i must recheck my wiring on the two left flippers as sometimes the upper one doesn't like to work. it's piggybacking off the normal left one. that's probably why.

the drop target didn't work right but i modified it. :)
discovered the reason the original one broke was because the thingy that's connected to the drop target at the bottom keeps sliding up and out of it's guide, as the guide thing is broken. good news is it's replaceable...bad news is i dont have one!

the ball is a fair bit larger than the original one, and plays pretty different.

i guess the upside is i've got spare parts.

also i need a crapload more of the small rubber rings...

also need to polish the playfield. wondering if i could get away with soft wax?
it's mylar'ed (most of the playfield) so i dont think it'd hurt too much.

definately need some flipper bats too!

pulled the playfield out of the mata hari today. it'll be the next project!
it's got some bad wiring, 1 dead mouse, and something else "interesting"...
will put up pics as i go but i've got some photo's of this!

was great to watch my 4 year old daughter play my pinball and come back for more!

kramer
26th October 2006, 09:22 PM
hmm, been doing a fair bit of work to the machine, and was playing it alot. today, something weird happened...

the second score display doesn't register score (like it was) but rather now copies the credits display and ball in play display below it. anyone ever heard of that? pretty weird!

Strangeways
26th October 2006, 10:03 PM
hmm, been doing a fair bit of work to the machine, and was playing it alot. today, something weird happened...

the second score display doesn't register score (like it was) but rather now copies the credits display and ball in play display below it. anyone ever heard of that? pretty weird!

Hi Kramer - I've seen something similar. Could be either a faulty display. Swap them around. ie - switch P1 with P3 then test, swap Credit with P3 and then test. If the fault follows the display, then there's your problem.

More likely, sounds like corruption on the data bus. I would be looking at reseating the 5101 on the MPU. Did this machine have much corrosion on the MPU ?

Maybe it's simply a case of reseating the connectors to the MPU, and reseating all the socket IC's on the MPU.

Process of isolation, make one change at a time - and let us know how you go !

kramer
26th October 2006, 10:23 PM
ok will give it a try reseating ic's etc. dont believe a display is at fault though.
hardly any corrosion but i fully redid the ground plane.
took some nice pics which i should upload sometime. might even add a 240 volt fan. the bridge recs get quite warm, even when heatsinked it seems.

Strangeways
26th October 2006, 10:39 PM
ok will give it a try reseating ic's etc. dont believe a display is at fault though.
hardly any corrosion but i fully redid the ground plane.
took some nice pics which i should upload sometime. might even add a 240 volt fan. the bridge recs get quite warm, even when heatsinked it seems.

I've rebuilt MPUs (U1-U7, PIA & CPU sockets replaced) and had funny things happen because of dirty legs on the ICs.

What BR's did you use ? 35A 400V ?

Skybeaux
27th October 2006, 08:54 AM
G'day Kramer,

If you resoldered the pins on the back of connector J-1 on the mpu board check that there arn't any solder splashes bridging the pins together.

kramer
27th October 2006, 05:29 PM
on j1 there was solder bridging 2 circuits together. the game worked fine like this before, and i haven't touched those joints. 2 5 volt lines if i remember correctly. that is of course non standard. will check out the legs!

br's i used 10 amp 600 volt if i remember right.

kramer
27th October 2006, 08:23 PM
right then. removed the mpu board, and carefully pulled, cleaned and reseated each IC. now i made sure i did them exactly as i pulled them out, right way, right socket. that's really annoying!

on power up mpu LED comes on and stays on. no flashes now :(

Strangeways
27th October 2006, 08:55 PM
Locked MPU. Possible reset section problem due to corrosion on the PCB. But since the only change has been the resocketing of the ICs - Check that all of the legs on all the socketed chips are ok. All you need for the initial flicker is the U6 ROM, U9 CPU and U11 PIA (lower).

There have been a few times where I have attempted to isolate unrelated problems on Bally / Stern MPUs, only to end up with a locked MPU. They are not hard to diagnose.




right then. removed the mpu board, and carefully pulled, cleaned and reseated each IC. now i made sure i did them exactly as i pulled them out, right way, right socket. that's really annoying!

on power up mpu LED comes on and stays on. no flashes now :(

kramer
27th October 2006, 11:39 PM
sweet, i'll have a read of part 3 of the bally repair guide, it's pretty much just mpu diagnosis. will have to build a test bench thingo from an old PSU.
will update as i go. checked all legs, everything is in properly

kramer
26th November 2006, 04:39 PM
yay got it working today. u9 cpu was a bit dodgy so i replaced it. 82ohm 2watt r11 resistor was borked, put a 5 watter 82ohm in there, and when i redid the ground trace around the board the earth wire i used pushed against the underside pins of something and gave data bus corruption.

wow only took me ages and ages. good thing i'm patient! moved all my arcade crap into the front sunroom. it's a little hot with teh windows open but at least it's all in the 1 place with a little space to work. joy!

might be time to triple thick the backglass and call it a day :P

naah more work to be done on it. replacing the flipper bats, and missing a couple small rubbers still. that's about it i think. everything else is just cleaning and adjusting contacts etc.

thanks for everyone's input should stay good now as i've spent a while following the guide and checking everything in the mpu and solenoid board over and replaced what's bad. :D super mega joy i'm getting pissed and playing pinball tonight!

after i've got this one finished and i'm happy with it i'll be moving onto the mata hari project. should be MORE of a challenge! it's not in a good way ! but at least i'm alot more experienced now and should be able to handle it no problems.

Pinball Warehouse
26th November 2006, 05:20 PM
Thats my boy, I'm very proud of you. Regards Tony

Strangeways
26th November 2006, 08:28 PM
Well done Kramer !

Patience is the key. The experience you gain will give you the confidence for your next project...and then the following project....etc..

:cool:

The Pinny Parlour
27th November 2006, 12:03 AM
Congratulations Jon. Nice one.

kramer
27th November 2006, 12:27 PM
thanks boys. everyones help and suggestions have been most helpful.

time to adjust a few things, install new bats, clean all the contacts and triple thick the back glass :) she's coming together nicely!

big thanks to wotto for the apron decals too :)