PDA

View Full Version : Best clear coat for playfield & heart transplant?



Willie Wolf
4th September 2006, 04:20 PM
I'm a newbie to this forum but it looks great. I am in the last stages of restoring a Gottlieb Class of 1812. Cabinet, mechanicals etc done. 100%. Starting on playfield which needs some repainting. I use an air brush mainly, with acrylic paint. I would appreciate some advice on the best clear coating to preserve the surface. The center is mylar and I intend leaving that alone except for a polish. Looking for tips and tricks. Scarey business, mucking around with the play field. Those who know 1812 would know the beating heart. The rubber heart has perished like most of them...any ideas for a replacement. I'm use a glow in the dark ghouls mask at the moment which looks OK but would rather a heart transplant. Any suggestions?? Can't find a substitue. Thanking you in advance.

Ric
4th September 2006, 04:54 PM
i have just finished the painting part of a WMS restoration and am going to try using a Cabots water based urethane - will do a test before trying on the playfield - will try to document results

Savage
4th September 2006, 06:55 PM
I did mine - Indiana Jones with Two Pack Clear from a spray gun...
1st thing I did was carefully remove the mylar. Then a light sand down with 1500 grit paper. Then 2-3 coats of clear. Let it dry for a week, then sanded this with 1200 grip and did my repairs (mostly touch ups, fixed 2 holes) and then 3 good coats of clear. Light rub down and a cut n Polish....

Automotive finish, ultra shinny and hard finish...

The Pinny Parlour
4th September 2006, 08:34 PM
I did mine - Indiana Jones with Two Pack Clear from a spray gun...
1st thing I did was carefully remove the mylar. Then a light sand down with 1500 grit paper. Then 2-3 coats of clear. Let it dry for a week, then sanded this with 1200 grip and did my repairs (mostly touch ups, fixed 2 holes) and then 3 good coats of clear. Light rub down and a cut n Polish....

Automotive finish, ultra shinny and hard finish...

WHOA! That sounds like a nice finish.

@lien_Zed
4th September 2006, 08:48 PM
i have seen show motorcycles done in the same kinda fashion...

if you stick them in the sun the shine from the paint work is incredible, i have no doubt the pinnies would scrub up and look better then new

Ric
4th September 2006, 09:14 PM
i am not pro enough to that the word isocyanates also scares the crap out of me

humpalot
4th September 2006, 09:48 PM
i have just finished the painting part of a WMS restoration and am going to try using a Cabots water based urethane - will do a test before trying on the playfield - will try to document results

I had a house with a timber once and the previous owner had used that stuff on the floor. The floor had a milky finish and I refuse to use it on anything.

I did an EM with auto acrylic and the finish is stunning. Total of 8 coats, sanded between every coat after the second.

Ric
4th September 2006, 11:33 PM
i have heard the problems with off the shelf acrylics

however the auto stuff is just way too dangerous for an amateur like me

I will see how i go with the test piece and me up my mind

confused but determined

Ric

humpalot
5th September 2006, 01:12 AM
i have heard the problems with off the shelf acrylics

however the auto stuff is just way too dangerous for an amateur like me

I will see how i go with the test piece and me up my mind

confused but determined

Ric

No for a starting place the acrylic is a good bet. It's not dangerous and is acually easy to apply with a spray gun, it even comes out OK with an air less gun. Obviously 2pak is best but I'd say acrylic is the next best so long as it's auto paint.

Darksoul
5th September 2006, 03:56 AM
I used a Solver brand clear coat acrylic that did not contain linseed. Linseed will yellow over time.

I'll check the exact name in the shed tomorrow when I find the tin.

http://www.users.on.net/~bradandpam/pinball/eldorado.html

If I do it again I will ensure more drying time between coats, about 3-4 days. I'll also try to use fewer coats if I can. It is a long process as compared to an auto 2pac but much safer.

Savage
5th September 2006, 06:37 AM
All Paint are dangerous without the right safety equipment, inhaling the fumes wether it be from painting it on via roller / brush or spray mist, but yep 2 pack is a lot more harmful,,,, but the finish is outstanding, pity your not in Brissy, small cost I would have done it for you...

Ric
5th September 2006, 08:13 AM
i agree that all paint is dangerous and I have bought breathing gear etc (specifally says do not use with isocyante paint - scared me more)

I would have taken you up on the offer savage except in sydney - bummer - the playfield looks great now and I do not want to stuff it up on the clearcoat phase.

Brad - if you can get me the name of the acrylic you use I will give that a go too or if anyone knows of a another good one besides the cabots I will give that a go too.

The reason I looked at the cabots was that no-one else really had a urethane or acrylic that did not contain linseed or some other oil that will yellow the fiinish over time

Cheers

Ric

Darksoul
5th September 2006, 01:50 PM
Clearcoat I used is Solver Brand, in their "classic timber finishes" range:

Polyaqua Interior Gloss Clear


If you do use it, get the guy at the counter to ring their help desk to make sure the formula has not changed and they have added anything that may make it yellow.


When I coated mine I now think I applied it too thick and did not give it enough cure time between coats. Reason being was that after a few months I was polishing it again, I left the bottle of Novus 2 sitting on the playfield for about 10 minutes, when I lifted it off there was a very fine indent in the shape of the bottom of the Novus bottle on the playfield. Took about 10 minutes sanding with 2000 grit and a polish up to get rid of it. It would suggest the layers were not fully cured or too thick. Seems rock hard now and have not had the same problem again.

Has now been coated for about 12 months, no yellowing, looks great!

Ric
5th September 2006, 01:53 PM
excellent

I looked at their site earlier and saw that - there is a supplier near me so will check it out

thanks

Ric

Mickey Juice
5th September 2006, 02:49 PM
Here's some more info on automotive clears:

http://www.marvin3m.com/clear/index.htm (I should put this site in my sig!)

As for the fake heart, something like this would be good:
http://www.halloweenonly.com/website/store/product_detail.asp?UID=&item_no=25609&keyword=&cat_keyword=&search_page_no=&page_no=&ltype=feat

DKong
5th September 2006, 11:36 PM
Great...Just applied about 5 coats of wax to my freshly cleaned playfield and now the discussion about clearcoating comes up..:x
I was seriously contemplating clearcoat and would love to to do it but decided against it because I was just not comfortable with the risk but it seems like you guys do it all the time.
Does it change the gameplay ie quicker?


Someone needs to do a good guide on this process cause I want to know more..

OzStick
5th September 2006, 11:43 PM
i have just finished the painting part of a WMS restoration and am going to try using a Cabots water based urethane - will do a test before trying on the playfield - will try to document results


I had a house with a timber once and the previous owner had used that stuff on the floor. The floor had a milky finish and I refuse to use it on anything.

I did an EM with auto acrylic and the finish is stunning. Total of 8 coats, sanded between every coat after the second.

I've used the Cabots water based urethane myself, to finish off my redgum bartop and after 3 coats it looked magic. In fact it still does! I've heard it can go milky if you don't let the undercoat(s) dry sufficiently but I didn't have that problem as it was summer when I did it......

DKong
6th September 2006, 12:00 AM
I've used the Cabots water based urethane myself, to finish off my redgum bartop and after 3 coats it looked magic. In fact it still does! I've heard it can go milky if you don't let the undercoat(s) dry sufficiently but I didn't have that problem as it was summer when I did it......

If your bartop is covered did you consider Danish oil? Just feeds the timber a bit oily but shines like butter plus when it wears you just lightly clean with some low grade steel wool feed more Danish oil into it and its better than new. Saves all that removing of urethane

Imagine the resto's of the future " Damn 21'st century people covered all this wood in plastic polyurethane " see them trying to lift the urethane instead of mylar..

Ric
6th September 2006, 08:55 AM
Rather than tear my hair out I am will test out the cabots first and then see what happens

three days to dry or longer?

jeff
9th September 2006, 01:09 AM
not sure why mlyar isnt popular anymore :cry
its straight forward to apply, lasts for years and years and can be replaced without damaging playfield (if removed correctly) and return game back to factory original :cool:
ive mylared all my keeper pinballs and have remylared some and had no long term problems
i only use the german mylar though as the aussie made stuff has the wrong kind of glue and when applied wet, if you lift up mylar to flatten out a bubble on the german stuff its no problem, on the aussie stuff the glue separates from mylar and stays behind (and makes quite a mess):x

DKong
9th September 2006, 02:01 AM
not sure why mlyar isnt popular anymore :cry
its straight forward to apply, lasts for years and years and can be replaced without damaging playfield (if removed correctly) and return game back to factory original :cool:
ive mylared all my keeper pinballs and have remylared some and had no long term problems
i only use the german mylar though as the aussie made stuff has the wrong kind of glue and when applied wet, if you lift up mylar to flatten out a bubble on the german stuff its no problem, on the aussie stuff the glue separates from mylar and stays behind (and makes quite a mess):x


Here here...plastic was applied for a reason...I have lifted mylar on Ausie playfields and the pristine bumper mylar is intact plus more...Oi..Oi..Oi..

Savage
9th September 2006, 07:52 AM
Until you see a Playfield that's been cleared you'll understand why this is [referred (Well to me), brings out heaps more depth to the playfield, mega shine to it, it very easy to maintain...

Those of you that use an acrylic based clear, I'd wait for at least a couple of weeks (month preferable) before lightly sanding and buffing up. THis way it gives all the solvents time to dissipate / evaporate from the clear and allowing it ti set harder... I remember too many time when we used Arcylic on cars, letting them rest a day, buffing them, looks nice but a week - 2 weeks down the track they 'flash' off and the appearance dulls.

Mickey Juice
16th April 2007, 03:00 PM
Then 2-3 coats of clear. Let it dry for a week, then sanded this with 1200 grip and did my repairs (mostly touch ups, fixed 2 holes) and then 3 good coats of clear.

*bump*

When do you guys do your touchups? After applying a layer of clearcoat (like Savage above) or before any clearcoating?

kramer
17th April 2007, 11:45 PM
i'll eventually get around to getting a couple pins clear coated savage heheh

Savage
18th April 2007, 04:34 PM
i'll eventually get around to getting a couple pins clear coated savage heheh

No Probs

Mickey Juice
1st May 2007, 12:47 PM
Rather than tear my hair out I am will test out the cabots first and then see what happens

three days to dry or longer?

How did you go with the clearcoating Ric? any helpful tips?

ROLLERBALL
25th May 2007, 03:57 PM
How would Krylon tripple thick go on a playfield???I know its used for the backglass...
Ive got a can sitting right here..
says on the back ok for wood...


What other type of spray can types would work on a playfield??
What can we use instead of Varathane(From the U.S.A)
that we can get here in OZ??

DevoDave
25th May 2007, 04:27 PM
What other type of spray can types would work on a playfield??
What can we use instead of Varathane(From the U.S.A) that we can get here in OZ??

Here here!! Anyone got an answer? Bunnings sell some non-yellowing stuff... any good?

(And what's an Aussie alternative for Naptha?)

ROLLERBALL
25th May 2007, 04:46 PM
Krylon products are not that hard to get here....

Ive got some tripple thick here not sure how that would go on a playfield
they also do a normal thickness clear coat as well
Ive seen that up the local Mitre 10

Pop Bumper Pete
25th May 2007, 04:54 PM
How would Krylon tripple thick go on a playfield???I know its used for the backglass...
Ive got a can sitting right here..
says on the back ok for wood...


From what I have read on RGP it is too soft to use on Playfields

Mickey Juice
25th May 2007, 05:01 PM
(And what's an Aussie alternative for Naptha?)

Do a Naptha search and it will come up. Shellite.

IMPURE
25th May 2007, 05:05 PM
I have used a brand called Croda, its awesome stuff :)

ROLLERBALL
25th May 2007, 05:07 PM
Ok is that Croda stuff hard to get and is it a spray can??

WOW...what about this stuff???Looks like it could be ok??

www.glasscoat.com.au

Looks good but Im still looking for something to spray on in a can that will work..

IMPURE
25th May 2007, 06:01 PM
yeah you can get it in a spray can, i bought a drum of it and was spraying it in a spray booth at a furniture polisher factory.

Ric
25th May 2007, 06:09 PM
hi there

My clearcoating is an ongoing project after moving house - more a boring than long story

not yet game enough to try a two pack - anything with nasty chemicals concerns me - particularly isocyantes as i am not set up for professional spraying

I have also read that Krylon triple thick is too soft too and won't work for playfields - it has to be soft enough to move with temp on the backglass so as not to cause crazing or cracking - so on a palyfield the softness would be a minus

Have not found a spray can clear coat in australia yet that is water based - wattyl make one but it is lindseed oil based and will yellow over time

My first attempt with the cabots on some text swatches (painted plywood) had interesting results - on the bare wood it seemed to give a good cover, on the painted parts it got absorbed more - more text sprays to come

(BTW - using cabots water based clear in a spray gun powered by air compressor)

IMPURE
25th May 2007, 06:27 PM
Personally if you can find a furniture polisher once its ready get them to do the clear coat, most use air less pumps to spray the clear, not a compressor job, The airless pump system is brilliant and the finish is awesome, the croda clear that was used was pumped directly from the drum no thinning etc, ask around furniture polishers to see what they use, if its airless go for it as you get more even product coverage. I f you are in melbourne there is a local company to me called alrose polishing in bayswater.

ROLLERBALL
25th May 2007, 09:48 PM
Ok so what about mylar???would anyone re-apply mylar to there playfields at all??
Im still not sure what to do with my funland playfield...
Ive done touchups but not keen on Auto coats
The varathane sounds good but you cant get it..
And mylar sounds as if eveyone is taking it off but never replacing it...
My machine is 40yrs old...was worn to the wood in spots and has never had mylar on it except arong the pop bumpers....
Any tips???Auto clear??Laquer??Mylar???What way do you go??

ROLLERBALL
26th May 2007, 11:18 AM
So how bad is the yellowing on a playfield if its done with a laquer with oil in it??

Fair Dinkum Dan
27th May 2007, 09:47 AM
There was a can of Varathane available in Sydney, that my brother and I used a couple of years ago on a playfield similar to the one Shaggy has displayed in his repair guides. I will try and find the can and if it is still available. For some reason, I keep thinking that we got it from Spotlight, just like the Triple Thick.
But don't use Triple Thick for playfields, it's just for backglasses.

I will email my brother to see if he remembers where we got it from.

Cheers,

Dan :cool:

terry007
28th May 2007, 05:53 PM
I have just been to Spotlight in Port Adelaide for a bit of a "nosey".
I came across 2 products by Helmar, Crystal Clear Gloss and Crystal Kote Gloss sprays.
I have emailed them asking for some specs etc , I will wait to hear back, but in the mean time here is the link to their site, some good suff on there too.

www.helmar.com.au

Ric
28th May 2007, 06:01 PM
i think their recommendation tears it for us

http://www.helmar.com.au/products/all_products/crystal_clear_gloss_varnish

terry007
29th May 2007, 03:04 PM
i think their recommendation tears it for us

http://www.helmar.com.au/products/all_products/crystal_clear_gloss_varnish

Correctomundo Ric, here is the reply I received today:

Dear Terry,

Our Crystal Kote series of varnishes is not that type of varnish. It is non-yellowing but not hard enough to withstand wear.

A better choice for wear and clarity would be a two part clear epoxy Aristocrat or Enviro-tex are two brands in the market.

Attention to detail with regards to application is critical to achieving the best results for two part epoxy but they will give a superior performance to other coatings.



Maree Holland

Helmar Australia

Ric
29th May 2007, 03:18 PM
it is a real bummer that there isn't a can type spray - the two part expoxies have the issue of requring spray gear and nasty chemicals

Thanks for your post Terry - will keep looking as I am sure a lot of us will

terry007
30th May 2007, 03:56 PM
Another one here perhaps?

http://www.septone.com.au/detail.asp?item_cat=5&item_number=217&page_num=1

Touch up those old legs anybody?

http://www.septone.com.au/detail.asp?item_cat=5&item_number=220&page_num=1

Ric
30th May 2007, 04:01 PM
I have used the White Knight Chrome paint on coin doors and legs with good results - not the same as a full re-chrome howeve it provides a superior colour on old coin doors and legs that have become rusted or pitted and it is also a lot cheaper at about $15 a can

Mickey Juice
12th June 2007, 03:44 PM
I've painted some of my playfield with acylic paint... but there are small ridges where the paint joined the masking tape. Will a few coats of automotive clearcoat level the edges?

Fair Dinkum Dan
16th June 2007, 11:46 AM
I've painted some of my playfield with acylic paint... but there are small ridges where the paint joined the masking tape. Will a few coats of automotive clearcoat level the edges?

Clearcoating it will only make it more pronounced. You have to have the playfield as close to level as possible to have the best effect. You will need to lightly sand the ridge down, so it is level with the rest of the paint/playfield. Be careful when sanding not to leave a crater instead, if the ridge comes away from the rest of the paint.

Any fine scratches from sanding with fine grit wet&dry shouldn't be visible once cleared.

Cheers,

Dan :cool:

gordo
7th September 2008, 08:30 PM
i have just finished the painting part of a WMS restoration and am going to try using a Cabots water based urethane - will do a test before trying on the playfield - will try to document results


Did the Cabots work??

Regards

Gordo

gary
22nd June 2009, 01:07 AM
i had a house with a timber once and the previous owner had used that stuff on the floor. The floor had a milky finish and i refuse to use it on anything.

I did an em with auto acrylic and the finish is stunning. Total of 8 coats, sanded between every coat after the second.

the milky finish would more than likely be moisture not dry before painting common with painting woods with this type of paint.
Done properly you can't get better