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Savage
23rd May 2009, 05:53 PM
Hi all,
Searched this site for friggen ages and also the web and could not find what I was after.

Has someone got a guide on applying cabinet art to a Pinny with images?

I'm after the wet method as will be applying new side art to my TZ pinball and don;t want to **** it up. Last time I did it was to my Indy and that was a massive pain in the ass...

Thanks

bwodie
23rd May 2009, 06:00 PM
http://www.robertwinter.com/pinball/restorations/cc/cabinet/index.html

got decals to do my TZ as well, you can be the test dummy

WOKA
23rd May 2009, 08:17 PM
Or maybe shout Shock and Awe a ton of piss and a BBQ.. Apparently he's a dab hand..! ;)

screwloose
24th May 2009, 08:41 PM
Hi all,
Searched this site for friggen ages and also the web and could not find what I was after.

Has someone got a guide on applying cabinet art to a Pinny with images?

I'm after the wet method as will be applying new side art to my TZ pinball and don;t want to **** it up. Last time I did it was to my Indy and that was a massive pain in the ass...

Thanks

The big secret is use Windex blue. You no doubt watched "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" and the old guy sprayed everything with windex. Well the bits they cut out of the movie was the "old guy" doing the decals on his pinball & spraying the cab with windex before he done it!! No probs doing it with windex. In fact I have had a bit of experience appying striping etc & its what many of the pros use. Use a credit card or applicator to smooth it out & get the bubbles out. The best clue I could give you is that check the artwork on the side & compare it to the front so that you get it lined up right. You may need to do the front before the sides. I did my IJ & didnt quite get it lined up on the front but the rest came up excellent. I think it was harder trimming the decals Than it was applying them.

Also when I stripped my TZ (headbox) I found the best thing to remove the old decals was Selleys paint stripper. When I did IJ I thought yep go the same way, but the stripper did absolutely nothing to the decals. I just had to heat & scrape them instead.

Hope that helps.

Wes

Savage
24th May 2009, 09:17 PM
Thanks all.
I think I'll give it a go.

Stripping is no issue, I'll be 2 pack primer / filler-ing it, then sanding and applying a 2 pack black, sanding this and applying the sticker over that.

I just finished floor tiling so the rubber squeegie thingo will come and handy for this.

Yeah my Indy did not match up to the front either, no matter whta I tried. I can remeber reading somewhere that this was common.

Will start stripping the side and front tomorrow.

screwloose
24th May 2009, 09:26 PM
Yeh at least if its wet & not quite right you can peel it back a bit & try & to get it right. By the way you can buy a proper application fluid that sign writers use to apply vinyl signs. I have tried it at work & on my TZ but I really dont think its any better than Windex.

Fair Dinkum Dan
24th May 2009, 10:18 PM
Or maybe shout Shock and Awe a ton of piss and a BBQ.. Apparently he's a dab hand..! ;)

Yeah, but Mark and his wife, Hayley, do them dry.

Cheers,

Dan

Fish Tales
25th May 2009, 06:35 AM
alot of guys just stick em over the old decals as well, seen one down this way awhile back, and it looked perfect

Shock_And_Awe
25th May 2009, 09:30 AM
I am happy to help anyone that wants their decals done - no piss or bbq required :) I don't offer this out there like I'm suggesting I'm an expert in decal application - it really is very easy to do but I know it is a daunting task to face for the first time so I'm happy to help out. My wife and I have done 7 cabs together; the first being my Indi maybe 3 years ago.

I don't want to get into the old "wet vs dry" argument because everyone thinks their way is the right way ;) ....but my opinion is that there are definitely advantages to the dry method over the wet. The only downside to the dry method that I am aware of is a perceived risk of stuffing it up. With proper technique I believe the dry method to be more fool-proof than the wet method.
The only thing that matters is that they both work, so neither way is wrong, it all comes down to personal preference or what you're comfortable to do. The most critical part of the whole exercise is the prep of the cabinet - if that's not done right, then it doesn't matter how you apply the decals, it will look like crap!

I reckon it takes maybe 30-40 minutes per side of which only about 5 minutes is applying the decal - the rest is in alignment and trimming etc.

I just completed my AFM cab and I reckon all up it was around a 50-60 hour project maybe more :o Putting the decals on and all looking good was prob only 3 hours of that. The cab was absolutely trashed so it required heaps of repairs and I'm terrible with that kind of stuff.

Savage
25th May 2009, 03:16 PM
Thanks.
I agree, just like when I use to work in a body shop, prep work was about 90% of the work, painting was about 9%.. (1% for detailing :laugh:)

I'm doing the wet method just cause of the fear factor :huh:.. for the warning decals that I just got. See how this goes, I may still ask for your help for the cabinet, but still repairing it. I may attempt one side. But always a BBQ on at my place for anyone that comes over!!!..
Cheers

sleazius
25th May 2009, 04:19 PM
Can't wait to see how the TZ looks when you are done :)

pinsanity
25th May 2009, 06:39 PM
Can't wait to see how the TZ looks when you are done :)

(Thread hijack.)

It should look like this: (Before and after shots with a one person installation) :)

Savage,

the hardest part will be aligning the front coin door decal (specifically the black and white spiral artwork aligned correctly over the start button and the blue galaxy artwork over the extra ball button).

If you need any advice feel free to drop me a PM. :cool:

Shock_And_Awe
26th May 2009, 10:04 AM
That looks great Reuben! It would definitely make installation a bit more challenging doing it on your own - I saw on Robert Winter's page he was doing it on his own and using weights to keep the decal in position.

It makes a huge difference to the appearance with the colours nice and bright. My TZ is almost perfect on one side but is badly faded on the other side so I've often considered doing the decals on mine too. Where did you get the TZ decals from and what's your thoughts on the quality of them?

I usually don't do decals unless absolutely necessary because repro decals are always more fragile than the original which is probably why I've been holding off on my TZ.

bwodie
26th May 2009, 12:33 PM
I got my decals from a fella in the US and they are perfect
very thick and excellent quality
very nervous about putting them on though

sleazius
26th May 2009, 12:42 PM
(Thread hijack.)

It should look like this: (Before and after shots with a one person installation) :)

Savage,

the hardest part will be aligning the front coin door decal (specifically the black and white spiral artwork aligned correctly over the start button and the blue galaxy artwork over the extra ball button).

If you need any advice feel free to drop me a PM. :cool:

Don't know how I missed this - but it looks great!

Savage
26th May 2009, 01:58 PM
Well.
I got the decals for the backbox and tried applying one the the back of the TZ.
Not to bad at all!..
What do you think..

http://www.aussiearcade.com/photopost/data/528/medium/DSCF3284_Custom_.JPG

http://www.aussiearcade.com/photopost/data/528/medium/DSCF3285_Custom_.JPG

bwodie
26th May 2009, 02:56 PM
looks ****in fantastic :)

sleazius
26th May 2009, 02:57 PM
Very nice :)

pinsanity
26th May 2009, 07:06 PM
Looks great Savage. Well done:cool:

ShockNAwe I won't hijack the thread any further so PM sent.:D

Savage
26th May 2009, 11:11 PM
Looks great Savage. Well done:cool:

ShockNAwe I won't hijack the thread any further so PM sent.:D

It's all good, Hijack away.

From looking at yours I can;t wait to do my cabinet art, just finished repairing the outside and primer / filler-ing it.

So I guess to do the front first. Any guide for doing this, always caused me issues on the Indy due to the big gap for the coin door.

pinsanity
26th May 2009, 11:54 PM
Yes Id definitely do the front coin decal application first. This is how I did it with the dry method.

The most important part in this as mentioned before is the alignment of the Start and Buy In buttons--if the decal is placed out of alignment then later when you cut out the holes it will look well..... bad.:(

1. If you have a slab of old chipboard lying around cut out a piece to the shape of the coin door hole and use it as a brace when you apply the decal. It stops any "sag" in the middle when you apply the decal. Lay the cabinet on its back so that you are working "flat" also.

2. Without removing any part of the backing paper, align decal with the base of the cab, lay flat on the cab and then check where the diameter of the Start and Buy In button holes are (sort of feel around the diameter of the routed holes through the decal itself.)

You want the button holes to be as close to "dead centre" of each respective image as possible. So the Buy In button to be in the centre of the blue galaxy and the Start button in the centre of the large white spot of the black/white spiral.

3. Apply decal from the base up (Twilight Zone writing first). Peel off less than 2mm of backing paper and apply it to the base. Now go back to step 2 and recheck the alignment with the Start and Buy In button holes.

4. If all is good with alignment then peel off another 1cm and apply. Go back to number 2 and recheck alignment.

5. Recheck alignment again because after this you are now beyond the "point of no return" if you are using the dry method. (NO chance of removing and realigning the decal after this point)

6. Start applying the decal by removing the backing paper a few cms at a time and wiping down the decal with a soft cloth and soft thumb pressure. (I actually bought a pair of white cotton gloves--the same type that you use to handle old manuscripts and rare books:laugh:--it eliminates any chance of damage to the decal---they look stupid but it works a treat:cool:)

7. Once decal is applied just trim with a Stanley knife by holding the blade at a 45 degree angle perpendicular to the cabinet. This will ensure a clean cut of the decal. (I hope that makes sense.:unsure)

Hope this helps.:cool:

Shock_And_Awe
27th May 2009, 08:12 AM
Just a tip on the alignment with the coin door decal - this was Ryan's idea (LOTR4U) - if you've got a spare person around with a torch or two (or some way to tape a small torch to inside of cab) shine the light through the start button/extra ball button holes from inside the cab. You can see the alignment of the holes very clearly on the decal this way. I've used this a couple of times and does the trick. Nice work on that one Ryan :D

Savage
27th May 2009, 08:48 AM
Thanks guys.
Great info.
Yeah the cutting part is the easy part for me!...

Cab probably won't be ready until next week. I'm only doing the wet method as I'll be doing it most likley by myself.

If I can't find a spare wood for the coin door, maybe thick cardboard with backing fro, a previous decal might suffice...

Cheers

bwodie
27th May 2009, 09:43 AM
some great info in here guys :)

pistolpete78
24th February 2010, 09:15 PM
Didn't think there was much point in starting a new thread on this, so hope you don't mind Savage if I bring this one back:) I thought it would keep the info in 1 place.

I'm planning on replacing the head box decals on my Theatre of Magic (new ones came yesterday - nice:)) and have a few q's I'm hoping for some help with. I would absolutely hate myself if I screwed it up:cry

1. I've seen somewhere that you can fill and place the new head box decals over the top of the existing ones. Is this realistic or is it best to strip off the old ones and go the whole 9 yards?
2. If you use the wet method, what sort of time would you generally allow for 1 side to dry before you flipped it over to work on the other?
3. Any other words of advice (apart from what's already here)?

Just a bit nervous on this one, but maybe over-thinking it:rolleyes

Cheers guys.

pinsanity
24th February 2010, 10:43 PM
1. I wouldn't go straight over the top.

Firstly, cabinet prep is the key to getting a good looking decal application - there may be any number of miniscule bumps and scrapes that are not visible to the naked eye. Going straight over the top will simply transfer those imperfections to the new cab decals once applied.

Secondly, TOM like CV has a sandpapery texture to the cabinet decals (ever run your hand over the sides). I'm no expert on vinyl printing but wouldn't that indicate that there are millions of minute bumps on the printing surface?

2. Use dry method and you don't have to wait at all (flip it over and immediately start on the other side).

Never really understood the wet method justification - if you align the decal PROPERLY from the beginning then you won't need the 30 seconds or so of adjusting a misaligned decal that the wet method provides.

3. Cabinet prep, cabinet prep, cabinet prep.

prowler
25th February 2010, 07:03 AM
If anyone needs a hand applying there decals in Brisbane let me know i will come and help or do them for you. I have done 6 of my own and a couple for Tony (pinballshed).

pistolpete78
25th February 2010, 08:51 AM
Secondly, TOM like CV has a sandpapery texture to the cabinet decals (ever run your hand over the sides). I'm no expert on vinyl printing but wouldn't that indicate that there are millions of minute bumps on the printing surface?

Yep - good point.

2. Use dry method and you don't have to wait at all (flip it over and immediately start on the other side).

Never really understood the wet method justification - if you align the decal PROPERLY from the beginning then you won't need the 30 seconds or so of adjusting a misaligned decal that the wet method provides.

True enough. I guess it's just a bit of a safety net for a first timer.

3. Cabinet prep, cabinet prep, cabinet prep.

Preparation is the key to a good result in anything I suppose.




If anyone needs a hand applying there decals in Brisbane let me know i will come and help or do them for you. I have done 6 of my own and a couple for Tony (pinballshed).

Hmm, I may take you up on that John. Maybe if you've got a spare arvo one day, but I might HTFU and do it myself. Will let you know.

Thanks for the replies guys.

Savage
25th February 2010, 10:15 AM
I just recently did my MM.
One side wet, one side Dry.

And all by myslef, some great guides on your tube, come out pretty well.

Only Issue I had was some of the backing paper was still stuck to the decal, was a price as I had to then soak the decal up and using my finger nail pick itecal, all without fu*ckin the decal itself!...

pinsanity
25th February 2010, 09:18 PM
I just recently did my MM.
One side wet, one side Dry.

And all by myslef, some great guides on your tube, come out pretty well.

Only Issue I had was some of the backing paper was still stuck to the decal, was a price as I had to then soak the decal up and using my finger nail pick itecal, all without fu*ckin the decal itself!...

Are these the decals that have been printed on the "new technology"?

If so, I'd be interested to hear your comments on accuracy/quality/durability/differences to the original decals :)

(I still have an older set of MM cab decals which I didn't end up applying since in my view they didn't match up to the originals).

merlin
25th February 2010, 09:43 PM
Interesting thread guys.

I'm just about to do a cabinet decal job on a Roadshow and I'm a little confused now on the assortment of methods that can be used.

It seems to me that preparation is everything, but there has been no real consensus on how to do this. Is it better to use a sander and rub the cabinet back to as much as you can get off, or is it necessary to smooth it back to bare wood?:confused:

Obviously I would like to get the best possible result, but I am unsure if I should sand back to wood or just sand back as much as possible - and then put some sort of undercoat before I apply decals. If I do an undercoat, what colour should it be for Roadshow??

Additionally, is it better to remove the backbox/head to do those decals, or can it be done with the head still attached?

Any advice appreciated...

prowler
26th February 2010, 06:47 AM
Interesting thread guys.

I'm just about to do a cabinet decal job on a Roadshow and I'm a little confused now on the assortment of methods that can be used.

It seems to me that preparation is everything, but there has been no real consensus on how to do this. Is it better to use a sander and rub the cabinet back to as much as you can get off, or is it necessary to smooth it back to bare wood?:confused:

Obviously I would like to get the best possible result, but I am unsure if I should sand back to wood or just sand back as much as possible - and then put some sort of undercoat before I apply decals. If I do an undercoat, what colour should it be for Roadshow??

Additionally, is it better to remove the backbox/head to do those decals, or can it be done with the head still attached?

Any advice appreciated...

Defineatly remove head box. Sand back to bare wood apply white under coat and sand again till smooth. May have to do under coat and sanding a couple of times. Check out some threads in "DMD restoration".

Savage
26th February 2010, 02:00 PM
Are these the decals that have been printed on the "new technology"?

If so, I'd be interested to hear your comments on accuracy/quality/durability/differences to the original decals :)

(I still have an older set of MM cab decals which I didn't end up applying since in my view they didn't match up to the originals).

I have no idea can take pictures, got nothing to really compare it to.

pinsanity
27th February 2010, 02:45 AM
"New technology"

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Medieval-Madness-Pinball-Cabinet-Decal-Set_W0QQitemZ390161950957QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Coi nOp?hash=item5ad776e8ed

I have no idea what it means either (just thought it might look different somehow). :lol

furballx
27th February 2010, 11:40 AM
FYI people, this is how it was explained to me back in June 2009 when it was under testing by the seller.....

To parraphrase,
The new technology is a print process that layers ink rather than just passing once with a mix of colours like a regular inkjet printer. The result is a textured finish that more closely approximates screen printing.

I have a set of MM using this process. They are more of a semi-gloss / satin finish rather than a full gloss. I reckon thay look pretty smick.

This is what I was told, and what I observe on my decals. Happy to answer questions, but I cannot say how accurate or otherwise the info above is.

Hope this helps,
Dave

Pajo
7th March 2010, 10:44 AM
Hi everyone,

I'm after some advice on preparing my TZ cab for new decals. So far I'm down to an empty cab with the inside cleaned and the bottom sanded and sealed with a mat varnish.

I've stripped the old decals off using a heat gun and paint scraper. That all went very smoothly. I've filled and sanded the damaged corners and edges (sides were ok) using a selly's 2 part filler.

The problem I have now is that there is still a very thin layer residual glue on the timber. I have been sanding with 120 grit using a palm sander and it is taking an age. When I sand, I get very small balls of glue and timber on the suface which I have to brush off before continuing. Using this method, the sides now look and feel pretty smooth but I know that there is still some glue there.

I have tried various chemical methods to attack the glue.. oomph, shellac and thinners. When I use the thinners, the surface becomes very sticky so I know that there is glue there but the problem is that even when it becomes sticky, it is still almost impossible to get it off.

My plan is to use 3 coats of water based flooring varnish (Cabbots CFP Gloss) to seal the wood and fill any inperfections, I'll sand that back and then apply the decals dry if I'm feeling brave.

My question is how do any of you deal with this issue after heat stripping decals? Is it good enough to move onto painting or varnishing the cab once the wood is smooth or do I need to keep going until there is no trace of glue in the wood? ie no more balling when I sand.

If I do need to get the residual glue out, how do I do it!!

Thanks

Foot
8th March 2010, 01:10 PM
Desolve-It is a spray on stuff that is handy for removing glue. Many people use it to remove residues after taking mylar off playfields. Bunning, Woolies etc should have it

28pms
8th March 2010, 03:21 PM
I have done it both ways stripping with a heat gun and belt sanding with 80 grit
i think its to much farting around with the heat gun , go for the makita sander first up it uses a couple of belts but its off in know time with no glue residue

furballx
8th March 2010, 06:19 PM
How does residue from de-solve it go when applying the new decals Foot? Spose it is OK if you get it all off prior to painting :unsure. I have used Paint thinner successfully for mine. This is Ok assuming that you are going to apply an acrylic (soolvent based) paint anyway so residue will not conflict. Thinners evaporats quickly anyway, so is not too much af a problem. Wipe on a bit with a rag, scrape off the glue filth with a nice new, flat scraper, and then sand the remainder off with much less hassal.
Dave

shootar75
8th March 2010, 06:25 PM
i use desolve it when removing mylar, i spray it on the residual glue, leave it to soak in for 15mins then scrape it off with a plastic scaper. Works a treat, should be the same for sides??

Pajo
8th March 2010, 07:06 PM
Thanks for the advice everyone.

In the end I tried the following (test patches)

Oomph glue solvent - very slow and not very effective
gum turpentine - no effect
shellac - little effect
metholated spririts - some effect but slow
white spirit - little effect
paint thinners - messy but softened glue quickly

so I settled on using thinners and a paint scraper as well as grade OO wire wool (thanks furballx). The end result looks very good and the wood now sands normally.

I'll be washing the cab down with sugar soap, then sanding and will wait a week before sealing. Hopefully the decals will stay on ok!:)

furballx
8th March 2010, 07:44 PM
Glad you got an answer. Be careful using sugar soap. You do not want to be painting acrylic (assuming you are using acrylic paint?) on a surface which might have water absorbed in it. Some thinners on a rag will remover pretty much all the remaining oil etc. Give it a good blow with the compressor before hand to get most of the dust off. Any thinners residue left over will mix with the acrylic paint and disappear as part of the drying process.

Remember to leave the cab for a week after painting to allow all gas exchange between the paint and the atmosphere to occur or you can end up with bubbles under the decal (thanks to Savage for that tip).

Best of luck,
Dave

EDIT--just noticed the bit about the Cabbots product. I am assuming that this is NOT a water based product with the comments I made above.
Remember, do not mix acrylic or oil based products with water based products. Same goes for what you use in prep.

Pajo
12th March 2010, 08:28 PM
Thanks Dave,

The plan was to use the sugar soap to help remove any hydrocarbon residues and then use a water based varnish (that wouldn't conflict with any residue from the sugarsoap process) after letting it dry out properly.

After your advice I'm planning on changing over to an oil based varnish (Cabot's CFP oil based?) and skipping the sugar soap and perhaps if necessary wiping down with mineral turps instead.

Is there a varnish that anyone has found particularly good.

Regards
Paul

furballx
12th March 2010, 08:38 PM
PAul, I am not sure that an all water based clean up and seal would present you with a problem. Just don't mix water base with acrylic is all. Remember that all the painting of the cab does is provide a smoother base for the decal to go on, filling in small imperfections. Original cabs are not painted. The decal goes directly onto the plywood. We use painted surfaces because the cab has prob had the crap knocked out of it over the years and needs all of the help it can get filling in the knocks and scrapes.

Best of luck,
Dave

Savage
17th March 2010, 03:31 PM
Remove goo and crap I use Wax and Grease remover.

Dulux \ PPG go by trade name of prepsole...
Is also what you use to wipe down anything and then wipe dry before painting, it removes crap but more importantly Silicone... which is a pissa to have in a paint / clear coat.

lookin
3rd April 2010, 10:02 PM
Shellite is the answer to removing glue after removing mylar.

Fair Dinkum Dan
4th April 2010, 09:32 AM
The big secret is use Windex blue. You no doubt watched "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" and the old guy sprayed everything with windex. Well the bits they cut out of the movie was the "old guy" doing the decals on his pinball & spraying the cab with windex before he done it!! No probs doing it with windex. In fact I have had a bit of experience appying striping etc & its what many of the pros use. Use a credit card or applicator to smooth it out & get the bubbles out.

Hope that helps.

Wes

:lol :lol :lol

Good one Wez. :023: I laughed my bloody head off when I read that. The father sure did love his Windex.

Cheers,

Dan

Homepin
4th April 2010, 09:42 AM
Remove goo and crap I use Wax and Grease remover.

Dulux \ PPG go by trade name of prepsole...
Is also what you use to wipe down anything and then wipe dry before painting, it removes crap but more importantly Silicone... which is a pissa to have in a paint / clear coat.

Talk to an old panel beater and he will tell you that the stuff sold under the trade name 'Prepsol' is actually turps...........

shansta
4th April 2010, 09:56 AM
The paint shop at work has "prepwash" or "solvex" same thing.