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View Full Version : Dreamcast light gun - Plasma? Any other compat guns?



mamejay
28th July 2008, 03:29 PM
Hi guys,

i have been going through my old dreamcast stuff and really wanted to play Virtua Cop 2.
Well well silly me upgraded to a 42" Plasma. no more light gun!!

Anyway. In my travels I noticed new light guns that work for PS1,PS2,PS3, PC and xbox.

Where's the DC support?

Has anyone played with these guns? Would be cool to have a gun that works on all my consoles.
Anyone got any advise?

elvis
28th July 2008, 03:43 PM
Where's the DC support?
While I love the Dreamcast, this is a silly question.

It's a long dead console with little to no consumer interest outside of a small volume of collectors.

From the perspective of anyone needing to fund R&D into making one of these guns, the effort would not be worth the financial return. At the end of the day a business is a business, and not a charity. Nobody is going to make these things new for such a low volume interest device because there's no way in hell they'd recoup the money invested, let alone pull a profit.

Your best bet is to try and track down third party converters (if you can find someone still selling old stock, or perhaps second hand) and see if they will work. My guess is you'll be out of luck, based on the fact that lightguns are a different kettle of fish all together from control pads and joysticks.

_Dan_
28th July 2008, 04:19 PM
I can see a few options, though none of them are ideal..
*Wait until there is better DC emulation and use a PC compatible topgun
*Buy a used 80cm CRT TV (they often go on ebay for ~$100) Then maybe use it in a HOTD style cab :D
*Find out if there is any possible way to bump down the refresh rate on a plasma from 100hz to 50/60hz (I doubt it)

I have seen homebrew light guns with basic software working on youtube so if you have the know how I'm sure it could be down with a lot of pain

AskJacob
28th July 2008, 04:44 PM
option 2 is your only one possible AFAIK.

Its not about the hz refresh on a plasma, it's that it isn't drawn with a moving beam...

Cheers

mamejay
28th July 2008, 05:02 PM
Thanks to everyone for replying. As I stated earlier. I have found a gun that is compatible with older consoles. Consoles that have LONG GONE way before the DC. Elvis I really don;t think this is a silly question. This is a brand new gun being made that is compatible with "DEAD" consoles and Plasma and LCD's. Why not the DC as well?
I understand what everyone is saying. I am not asking anyone to start working on ways to get the orginal gun working.
All I was thinking was to get a PS2 to DC convertor and seeing if one of these guns work.
Nice and easy convertor plug.
Thought someone may have tried this but as this console is "dead" I guess no one here thinks outside the square.
Might as well pull out my PS1 and get a gun for that one. Wait a minute.... How can that work after so long....

Crafty
28th July 2008, 08:31 PM
*Buy a used 80cm CRT TV (they often go on ebay for ~$100) Then maybe use it in a HOTD style cab :D


This is my option in the shed, with a 68cm TV. When I tire of Virtua Cop, I play HOTD2,

Having said that I also now use a PS2 for shooting games for Time Crisis 3, Crisis Zone and Vampire Nights all on the PS2. Also have Virtua cop on the PS2 now as well..

elvis
28th July 2008, 09:16 PM
As I stated earlier. I have found a gun that is compatible with older consoles. Consoles that have LONG GONE way before the DC. Elvis I really don;t think this is a silly question. This is a brand new gun being made that is compatible with "DEAD" consoles and Plasma and LCD's. Why not the DC as well?

You said it was compatible with (and I quote).

Anyway. In my travels I noticed new light guns that work for PS1,PS2,PS3, PC and xbox.

Let's break that down:

1) PS1 and PS2 use the same spec for Light guns - anything made for PS2 will work with PS1. The PS2 is still an in-release console with new games being made for it. The PS1 had an 11 year life, and Sony said the PS2 will be the same. As it was released in 2000, this means it will keep having games until at least 2011. Longer if Sony want it to.

2) PS3 is a brand new console. And you can buy PS1 games for it from Sony's online purchasing site.

3) PC. Nuff said.

4) XBox. End of production life Nov 2005, with new units still bing sold until early 2006. Backwards compatibility means games can still be played on XBox 360.

Dreamcast end of life - 2001. 7 years ago.

So no, sorry, but the DC was a commercial failure, and the consoles you mentioned above certainly did NOT die prior to it (even the Playstation 1 was end of life in 2006 - 5 years AFTER the Dreamcast).

Again, I think it's one of the best consoles ever to have been made, but that doesn't change the fact that it is dead, and nobody's making new accessories for it. Think about it: would you invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in R&D and prototyping to make an accessory maybe 1000 people would buy? Again, it's business, not charity.

Common sense, really.


Thought someone may have tried this but as this console is "dead" I guess no one here thinks outside the square.
I play my DC on an 80cm (31") CRT TV. Lightguns work great on that. They also work great when I hook it up to my 30" candy cabinet with CRT monitor (hacked SCART/RGB output with sync taken from the composite video).


Might as well pull out my PS1 and get a gun for that one. Wait a minute.... How can that work after so long....
Again, a happy side effect of (a) being in production long after the death of the Dreamcast, and (b) being backwards compatible with the PS2, which is still in active production/sales today.

What you need to do is find the Sega console made after the Dreamcast and use it's peripherals. Wait a minute.... there isn't one....

narf_
28th July 2008, 11:47 PM
http://www.consolesandgadgets.co.uk/catalog/total-control-p-147.html

:unsure

mamejay
31st July 2008, 11:07 AM
http://www.consolesandgadgets.co.uk/catalog/total-control-p-147.html

:unsure

Thanks for the link Narf.
Has anyone tried connecting a gun to one of these?
Have to see if I can find a converter local and give it a hit.
Still plenty of life in the DC yet. Well for ME anyway.

Thanks for the comments guys

gints
31st July 2008, 12:35 PM
won't help you with the plasma stuff, but i think i have DC guns if you want them. Or anyone else for that matter. And a control.

Perhaps if you wanted to get down and dirty you could make something up. I'm pretty sure all any conventional lightgun emits is a single pulse when the raster draws the white dot its receptor is aimed at. All light guns I assume will have to work on some form of timing.

Thus if you could work out the style/timing/format that plasma compatible guns send out and build a circuit to convert that information (be it timing based or co-ordinate based) to the DC standard, you could be in the win.

That would be an AWFUL lot of work tho

elvis
31st July 2008, 05:26 PM
Still plenty of life in the DC yet. Well for ME anyway.
Hahaha. I still play my DC almost every day. But I play on a CRT, which still craps all over an Plasma or LCD for colour and refresh. The only disadvantages are maximum size and device weight, but down in my concrete-floor games room, that doesn't stress me.

Don't take it so personally mate. You asked why nobody makes these things, and I told you. If you don't like it, head over to a factory in ShenZhen, China, and pay some engineers to R&D you a few hundred units. I tell you what: I'll pay $20 for one if you make a working unit. :lol

Back on topic: the converters above will work *IF* the light gun emulates an analogue stick input. The problem is how it sends the "not pointed at the screen" signal (which is often needed to reload in many games).

I have a strong feeling these converters *WON'T* work on a plasma/LCD device, but I'm more than happy to be proven wrong by anyone willing to waste a few bucks testing.


Thus if you could work out the style/timing/format that plasma compatible guns send out and build a circuit to convert that information (be it timing based or co-ordinate based) to the DC standard, you could be in the win.
That wouldn't work. On a CRT the picture is drawn by a single dot that goes from left to right, top to bottom. A combination of this dot's position compared to the analogue sync signal gives a small photosensitive camera in the lightgun it's relative position on screen.

Plasmas and LCDs do not draw a picture as one dot. They have all their signals (back-light hiding in LCD, light emitting in Plasma) on at all times, and only change state when new information arrives (and do so all at the same time, or near enough given the laws of physics - many orders of magnitude faster than a cathode ray, at any rate). This design provides NONE of the information a typical CRT lghtgun needs to function. No circuit board on earth will help you there. It's not a case of "we just need to try harder". It just won't work, full stop.

What you need is:

1) A light gun that uses a fixed-reference device (eg: an IR/LED panel, like the WiiMote, or any of the LED-based light guns on sale for other consoles)

2) A device from (1) that speaks the native Dreamcast I/O for lightgun signals.

So again, a gun for CRTs won't work. End of story. A gun designed for IR/LED but for use on PS2/PS3/Xbox/whatever with a whatever-to-DC converted MIGHT work, depending on if the communications are standard analogue pad signals, OR the converter was specifically designed to take GunCon1/2 (Sony/Namco proprietaryformat) or whatever XBox uses and convert them to Sega's format.

Again, I think you've got Buckley's. But if someone wants to spend the $30 on a converter and try it out, by all means be my guest. I'd be very happy if I was proven wrong, as it would mean great things for people who do want to play DC on a flat panel device (even if I don't).

In the meantime, I'll keep playing my DC on my CRTs. Because, you know, it works.

narf_
14th September 2008, 02:09 PM
found this while looking for a converter my self

http://video-games.search.ebay.com/_Accessories_W0QQcatrefZC12QQsacatZ139969QQsassZfo urtriangles

elvis
14th September 2008, 02:34 PM
Have you tried any with light guns?

In that list I can only see converters for lightguns that are PS2->PC. And they still require output on a PC to go via a CRT with a sync rate detector plugged in via the A/V cable input.

Of the PS2->DC converters, they explicitly mention dualshock 1 and 2 controllers, and steering wheels. No mention of Guncon compatibility.

So still no way to get DC guns on a LCD or Plasma TV. I think folks are not getting *why* this is so difficult, and are just incorrectly assuming it works like any old controller.

narf_
14th September 2008, 02:43 PM
nah i havent

i didnt know that you needed a sync thingy :redface

bugga. im going to order one to run a steering wheel on my DC when i get the thing out of storage

elvis
14th September 2008, 06:17 PM
i didnt know that you needed a sync thingy :redface
The "sync thingy" doesn't work on LCD/Plasma TVs. Only on CRTs.

The OP wants a converter that will take one of these LED-bar driven light guns (they work in the same way as the Wii remote) from PS2/XBox to DC.

narf_
14th September 2008, 08:08 PM
ahh now im wiser in the force