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Ric
3rd May 2006, 01:51 PM
Hey there

I will lay my cards on the table and say i am a non-believer.

However, has anyone been to Wayne's or forked out cash for a deposit on one of the new games?

Ric

The Pinny Parlour
3rd May 2006, 02:11 PM
There has been a stir about this on R.G.P usenet, and a news item at www.retroblast.com

Wotto
3rd May 2006, 02:21 PM
Dont start me Ric, dont start me...................OK you started me.

Seriously- would ANYONE be that stupid

Mate ask Wayne and he will tell you they took about 500 pre-orders BUT look at his forum page and you will see that most discussion forums have been removed- I wonder why that would be?

What an absolute waste of time this all is.

He has " the industry" and individuals running scared while repro parts stop getting made as well. People should just roll on and re-produce parts etc and get on with business while this clown sits around doing absolutely nothing.

I have never known ANY industry to have one man to be able to hold a gun to it's head like this guy is with whats left of the Pinball industry.
He will go down in history as the guy that FINALLY pushed the pin industry off into oblivion.

Ric
3rd May 2006, 03:19 PM
I have to agree with Mark

But I guess my post is born from what Ian was saying.

I have follwoed the hype and the stories and, morever, the anger that has been associated with the Pinball Factory and their storng arm tactics of using the threat of lawyers to push small buisness/hobbiests from amking repro parts.

I guess I was seeing if anyone in Oz has seen one of these fabled machines or knows more?

Or are we waitng for the smoke to disperse and th mirrors to shatter?

Ric

NMD
3rd May 2006, 05:12 PM
The amount of pre-orders have suprised me considering the lack of information and detail available to potential customers as to how they will produce such a number of machines in such a short time :unsure

hamish_nz
3rd May 2006, 05:50 PM
I believe most orders are from large distributers.
Maybe he gave them a better deal

garuda
3rd May 2006, 07:20 PM
He is also pushing the price of repro parts through the roof. If people want to sell parts he has to get a cut or his lawyers come in. I saw a Shadow brick wall target (simple plastic target and a highly breakable part) sell for $107USD on US Ebay. ****ing ludicrous.:rolleyes

Shock_And_Awe
3rd May 2006, 08:20 PM
I know this guy gets a real bad rap everywhere but I want to know what everyone thinks........what are the chances of him remaking CC or MM??

0%?
50%?
100%?

Put aside all personal issues and reputations with the guy.....surely there's gotta be something behind all this?? surely somethings got to happen??

Lets just say that hypothetically I was looking at buying a MM, what would you expect to happen to the value of one if Mr Pinball does remake them? What impact would this have on the resale of a legit MM?

garuda
3rd May 2006, 08:42 PM
I know this guy gets a real bad rap everywhere but I want to know what everyone thinks........what are the chances of him remaking CC or MM??

0%?
50%?
100%?

Put aside all personal issues and reputations with the guy.....surely there's gotta be something behind all this?? surely somethings got to happen??

Lets just say that hypothetically I was looking at buying a MM, what would you expect to happen to the value of one if Mr Pinball does remake them? What impact would this have on the resale of a legit MM?
I would expect that there is a 50% chance of him producing these pinballs. I think by reproducing these pinballs it will raise the popularity of the originals. To me, and to a lot of collectors, if it does not have the original Bally/Williams logos it is not original.

The Pinny Parlour
3rd May 2006, 09:19 PM
I would expect that there is a 50% chance of him producing these pinballs. I think by reproducing these pinballs it will raise the popularity of the originals. To me, and to a lot of collectors, if it does not have the original Bally/Williams logos it is not original.

Agreed. Your genuine Bally/Williams will always be just that.

No remake will ever replace factory originals.

Your genuine Bally/Williams will continue to rise and rise in value. In 10-15 years time, these thing WILL be worth a fortune.

Shock_And_Awe
3rd May 2006, 09:48 PM
Agreed. Your genuine Bally/Williams will always be just that.

No remake will ever replace factory originals.

Your genuine Bally/Williams will continue to rise and rise in value. In 10-15 years time, these thing WILL be worth a fortune.

why do you say this Ian? I know that pinballs have gone up like 20% every year for the past 6 years or so but basically they were worth near nothing 6 years ago due to the huge oversupply on the market with arcade closures. You still think that trend will continue? I am really interested in everyone's thoughts on this....it makes it easier to justify the purchase of another "investment" if in fact they are that - an investment.

Wotto
3rd May 2006, 10:10 PM
Personally - I buy them for sentimental reasons and because I am addicted to owning the oldies. I pour way too much money into the machines I own but I seriously couldnt care less if one that I owned was now worth $5.00 or $1500.00. I personally would never buy a pin just as an investment as I have noticed that the prices have fairly well levelled out ( and dropped ) over the last 1 - 2 years especially.

I think about 15 years ago you could pick up pins for sh*t $$ and if you held on to them and sold them untiil recently you would have doubled, tripled, quaded your money, but seriously, you would expect that with most types of "investments" over 15 years - would you not?

My first pin was an Indiana Jones that I bought in 1999 for $1100.00, I sold it in 2004 for $4100.00 and you will note that MOST IJ's still only get around $3500-$4000.00 today and its been like that for a few years now.

My neighbour has a Judge Dredd, he got it 5 years ago for $2100.00 , tell me it's worth more than that now- answer not really.

Maybe , just maybe as they get older and rarer they will rise in value again but for now they appear to have settled:unsure Remember, these things are also fickle and prone to breakdowns and that can turn your $2100.00 Judge Dredd into a hard to sell half value mess in a hurry as well if you cant get a quick cheap fix- and we all know thats hard.

But fear not all "pin investors" wayne will save you all !:lol

Shock_And_Awe
3rd May 2006, 10:20 PM
all very valid points Wotto....thanks for that!

The fact is if I buy a pinball or arcade cab and get a couple of years enjoyment from it and can still get my money back, it is a bargain and great investment. Some pinnies like MM are just very expensive and I wonder if there is a downside to these high priced pinballs in the short-term or long-term??

The Pinny Parlour
3rd May 2006, 10:29 PM
why do you say this Ian? I know that pinballs have gone up like 20% every year for the past 6 years or so but basically they were worth near nothing 6 years ago due to the huge oversupply on the market with arcade closures. You still think that trend will continue? I am really interested in everyone's thoughts on this....it makes it easier to justify the purchase of another "investment" if in fact they are that - an investment.

Because that's what I think. The word 'value' in this instance was not in a monetary sense, but more of a collectable/genuine article sense. [I value this product over that, product].

I do believe however that genuine Bally/Williams will get rarer and rarer and naturally prices rise if there is demand for such things.

The Pinny Parlour
3rd May 2006, 10:32 PM
Along the lines of what Wotto said. I would buy a pinny for sentimental reasons. I love Firepower II, Gorgar (which I get to play regularly), Flash, Genie, Time Warp, Simpsons (both versions), Space Invaders, Stellar Wars, Mata Hari, Fishtales, Cue Ball Wizard, Haunted House, any EM pinball.

Shock_And_Awe
3rd May 2006, 10:40 PM
Because that's what I think. The word 'value' in this instance was not in a monetary sense, but more of a collectable/genuine article sense. [I value this product over that, product].

I do believe however that genuine Bally/Williams will get rarer and rarer and naturally prices rise if there is demand for such things.

Yep, totally agree with the value in the original article.

I've heard people say that the Aussie pin market prices could be affected by the huge volumes brought into the country by Mark C? What are your thoughts on that?
* of course not a critism of Mark, in fact I wish I could do something like that myself if I had the expertise. I am a complete novice with pinnies so I'm just throwing these thoughts out to you guys for your ideas on these things.

* sorry should've started a new thread "Pinball Values":)

Shock_And_Awe
3rd May 2006, 10:48 PM
I wonder how many wives were made to read this article :lol

http://www.bumper.com.au/silverballmania.asp

garuda
3rd May 2006, 10:51 PM
Yep, totally agree with the value in the original article.

I've heard people say that the Aussie pin market prices could be affected by the huge volumes brought into the country by Mark C? What are your thoughts on that?
* of course not a critism of Mark, in fact I wish I could do something like that myself if I had the expertise. I am a complete novice with pinnies so I'm just throwing these thoughts out to you guys for your ideas on these things.

* sorry should've started a new thread "Pinball Values":)

I think the increase in volume of pinballs has decreased the value of pinballs, but this will reach an equilibrium. Once it does, importers will exhaust their supplies or realise that it is no longer cost effective, then pinballs will break down and die and create new demand. Prices will again rise. Quite the pricing rollercoaster. Enjoy the ride. I'm buying now.

bretty
3rd May 2006, 11:08 PM
I also think all the machines currently being imported not just by Mark is having an effect on the values.The more collectable and sought after machines still bring good $ but other less collectable machines such as Judge Dredd have probably lost value as they come up regularly for sale.So if the price aint right just wait there will be another.
And good luck to Mark etc.If it wasnt for those guys pinnies would not be as affordable to us as they currently are.

jeff
4th May 2006, 08:56 AM
huge volumes brought into the country by Mark C?
mark is definetely not the only guy bring in containers,
i know a guy who sold a nice CACTUS CANYON last week for $16,000.00 and i think its the second one he sold for big bucks, first one went for $15,000.00
hes got plenty of customers willing to pay stupid money for nice and rare machines :tomato
on another note in comparison to mrpinball
i spoke to a victorian guy the other day who has a paid up preorder for a CAPCOM BIG BANG BAR in the states, theres been constant talk that will never happen on RGP,
the games are almost finished and there is a private website with all the info and pics (you had to put a deposit on game to be a member), the dude i know said all up cost will be US$4500 and the guy who is making them will be losing a lot of money at that price, but is going ahead with it for credibility reasons, so based on that fact alone i think it will be a fine line between any profits or losses on the MMs if they get made by mrpinball :rolleyes

Ric
4th May 2006, 09:39 AM
http://www.bumper.com.au/silverballmania.asp

That article shits me no end

It is complete garbage spun by Del and David Stein to justify the insane mark up's they put on all their products.

It is that kind of trickery that does a diservice to the hobby.

Is there a market price for games? Yes and no. what ebay sells games for is possibly the closest we get to makret vlaue as it is a free and open system

However anyone who has bought a pin knows of people paying more or less for equivalent games thorugh luck or being willing to pay extra for thatgame they really want.

Why is a MM or ESB or KISS "worth" more than a Demo Man or Escape from Lost world. Demand, popularity, nostalgia?

The pinball market is and always has been fickle. Those who put in money with a view to recouping massive amounts in the future may be in for a shock.

As anyone who knows someone who has a WMS that start to go glitchy tech prices ar eexpensive and I know a lot of people who have sold rather than paid the tech price.

As parts dry up, boards get older, conectors go etc etc I see the prices settling as people relaise just like a vitnage car, you need to keep these machines tuned up and well maintained otherwise they will start to go flakey

Ric

catty
4th May 2006, 09:55 AM
I believe that a small percentage of people will own a majority of the pins. With the huge amount of pins being imported these days I can't see them being spread over the wider community for to long. As was stated before, if the casual punter gets one to compliment his games room and after a couple of years breaks down it will just sit there until he sells it off, and how many pins can one own? I buy them because of the nostalgia, satisfaction of fixing them(rare) and fun to play. I don't think that as an investment they will make anyone rich.:)

markc
9th May 2006, 10:16 PM
hi all


I have been away for the last week and have just found this thread

my 2 cents worth

well I hope mr pinball does make the CC and MM as I believe this will only INCREASE prices of the orginals. from what I have been told many parts will be different ( Wayne please reply and tell me otherwise) I have also heard some rights are not avaliable to him to reproduce and logos again please this is only what I have heard and I havent asked Wayne ( keith delivered the CV pinny he won of me on Ebay) I wish him all thes best with these and still hope of seeing the croc hunter pinball I am sure these will do very well at Australia Zoo ( I was there last week) plenty of croc s to see.


re importing pinballs

from my sales i seem to find the top end still hold price and to be honest have gone up say Indy Jones was 3000 to 4000 2 years ago now with a new decals and complete re fit and done up will get you 6000 ish up I have heard of one dealer selling them for 7500 plus

the 2500 to 3500 seems to be holding still and some even low 2s
Judge is a good one 2 years ago it was 2500 is now its 2000 to 3000
after checking ebay I seem to see many more pinballs listed and prices seem to have gone up in this range

but as most of you know me I will when I need room sell them off and move them I have done many deals with 2 and 3 and even 6 pinballs at at time.

this is where I should say
i will be listing a few this week at starting price of a dollar and be sold to the highest bidder.


world cup Soccer 94
striker Extreme
No Fear
Fish Tales
Cue Ball wizard


I cant see the supply running out for a while as I knock back more than I Take
well I guess it depends on where you get them from.

thanks

mark

Ps CC for 16K wow I would have thought it worth 10ish for a good one
I have one coming and another MM too

The Pinny Parlour
9th May 2006, 10:19 PM
Wayne is yet to pop his head up around here. He visits Darkage-50s but not here yet.

markc
9th May 2006, 10:32 PM
Wayne is yet to pop his head up around here. He visits Darkage-50s but not here yet.


he does vist other aussie sites and chat

I am sure he will pop in here soon

The Pinny Parlour
9th May 2006, 10:33 PM
he does vist other aussie sites and chat

I am sure he will pop in here soon


I think he might be scared of Wotto. lol :lol

Arcade King
12th May 2006, 08:46 PM
I think he might be scared of Wotto. lol :lol

He scares me thats for sure.

bretty
12th May 2006, 08:54 PM
I think he might be scared of Wotto. lol :lol
Could make for some interesting reading.Why dont you send him an invite?Would be good to hear things straight from the horses mouth.

rottenpig
12th May 2006, 09:54 PM
would be good to have a go at someone new!!!

frs
27th May 2006, 01:05 AM
Check it out: on RGP, Wayne has spoken. (Thread title: Plastics Sets)

He reckons he has the required numbers for MM remake, and will have pics to post in the next few weeks (though he doesn't say if they're pics of MM or Croc though - just 'progress pics').

Cat -------------------> Pidgeons :lol

gunigoogoo
1st May 2007, 12:23 PM
Bump.

April has passed, Ballypinball said that some MM's would be ready in April. Any updates available? Anyone?

WOKA
1st May 2007, 12:25 PM
April of which year...?

Strangeways
1st May 2007, 12:56 PM
Nothing but the sounds of crickets....

April 2009 maybe ?

Now that competition for spares and common parts is available in australia http://www.pinballspareparts.com.au, us collectors will finally be able to keep the dollars here rather than the US.

Even if they are produced, they won't even have the Williams logo on them ?

Coke VS Pepsi ? - So it's not a remake, just an imitation ???? :x :x :x