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gints
14th January 2008, 08:18 PM
Hey guys,

Just installed PS2 in cab with the Ultimarc control/vid adaptors into a JPAC, and having some issues.

I thought the colour and syncing issues could be due to the PAL signal, so I went and fastracked my modchip, so now i can select PAL, PAL60, NTSC etc.

I hooked it up, and the colours are really flat (ALMOST looks black and white) but more importantly the picture is sliding all over the place. Ive fiddled and fiddled with VHold and HHold and nearly got it static, but I was thinking there was a syncing issue (or maybe just bad pots on my part).

My understanding is that the PAL/NTSC colours shouldnt matter because the composite signal has been broken out to RGB in the Ultimarc product. Either way I got the chip so I can play 60Hz NTSC games, therefore I hopefully wouldnt have any VHold issues that I wouldve encountered changing from a 50Hz PS2 to a 60Hz MAME PC.

Im not too knowledgable on video modes etc. can anyone shed some light?

elvis
14th January 2008, 08:45 PM
I hooked it up, and the colours are really flat (ALMOST looks black and white)

1) Make sure the PS2 is set in it's options to do RGB out, and not YCrCb, otherwise you'll miss half the colours

2) If you have chosen RGB and still are getting poor colour, and your TV/monitor doesn't have 0.3V/1V switchable inputs, you need a video amp. Either buy one from any of the arcade product manufacturers out there, or make a quick and dirty version yourself by placing non-polarised 220uF caps (or polarised with the +ve towards the console, -ve towards TV) on the R, G and B lines (not on the sync line).

I've done #2 in my current PS2-in-a-candy cabinet, and it works great. If you are taking raw "off the video chip" RGB, you also need 75ohm resistors on the R/G/B lines, but if you are hacking RGB/SCART out (which is what the Ultimarc adaptors do), the 75ohm resistance is already on the lines as part of the SCART spec.

gints
14th January 2008, 09:03 PM
k ill go and try number one.

Its running through a JPAC with the video amp tho, so i dont think no.2 is the issue.

Any idea why it would be so troublesomely out of sync? Normally a few twiddles fixes a scrolling picture etc. but this is ridiculous. Should it be a V and H sync or composite?

gints
14th January 2008, 09:29 PM
One beer goes to elvis. Changed to RBG and fixed the colours, well done.

Ive got the picture pretty much static, but still has some horizontal misalignment that I cant get rid of. Could this be scratchy pots on the monitor controls? Doesn anyone have a breakout of a PS2 AV cable so I can see what wire is what?

elvis
15th January 2008, 01:29 PM
A few things to try:

SCART sends composite video by default. Most monitors can use this to strip composite sync from the signal without too many dramas. Some monitors will have a switch that you need to select for composite video vs composite sync.

I'm not sure what the JPAC does (whether it just passes through the comp.video signal, or whether it strips out the comp.sync for you).

If you need to make your own sync splitter, the PC2JAMMA website documents how to do that here:
http://www.mameworld.net/pc2jamma/arc_sat4.html

Pretty simple circuit to knock up if your monitor is picky.


Any idea why it would be so troublesomely out of sync? Normally a few twiddles fixes a scrolling picture etc. but this is ridiculous. Should it be a V and H sync or composite?
When you were using YCrCb, the sync is sent on the Y channel, and not separately. YCrCb is designed to reduce the number of cables (and thus the bandwidth of high-def video equipment) from 5 (R, G, B, H, V) to 3 (Y [luminance]+ Sync, Cr [colour shift from red]. Cb [colour shift from blue]). This format is good for hi-def displays that have the processing power to convert stuff back to RGB, but need bandwidth reductions to stop needing huge cables connecting all your gear.

When your PS2 was in YCrCb mode, it wasn't getting any sync (the dedicated Sync out was turned off). You had so many problems simply because the sync signal wasn't there at all, and any tweaking or "twiddles" were not doing anything. :)

gints
15th January 2008, 07:49 PM
cheers mate, bit confused about video signals (never done much looking into them before).

So if composite video the normal yellow RCA cable that heaps of shit uses? And that obviously contains a signal which has data for the colours AND the syncing?

I believe the ultimarc products I am using splits the PS2 output into RGB and sync, but i'm not sure what type of sync, I assume composite. Bit unclear on the diff video stuff, if anyone could give me a bit of a run through in laymans terms.

OKAY ive just got my AVGA drivers and installed them

The picture from that is rolling as well, very slowly. If a twitch VHold it will roll down, twitch it back roll up, twitch it again roll down. Basically I can't find a hapy spot for it to sit still. The PS2 is basically doing this as well (though with som horizontal issues).

In another post someone commented that the Sync IC in the chassis I have is prone to failure, could this cause this?

Am going to check the solder now on the comp sync pin on my jamma connector to make sure it hasnt broken during all my remodelling.

My word VF4 is teasing me, just want to fix this and get playing!!!

elvis
15th January 2008, 08:08 PM
So if composite video the normal yellow RCA cable that heaps of shit uses? And that obviously contains a signal which has data for the colours AND the syncing?
Those yellow plugs give "composite video". That's Y (Luminance, or brightness - this is the only video signal black and white TVs use), C (Chrominance, or colour without Luminance/brightness), and composite (h+v) sync.


I believe the ultimarc products I am using splits the PS2 output into RGB and sync, but i'm not sure what type of sync, I assume composite. Bit unclear on the diff video stuff, if anyone could give me a bit of a run through in laymans terms.
The Ultimarc products take the RGB/SCART, which generally sends R, G, B and composite *video*. The composite video can be further split down to strip just composite *sync* out. I'm not 100% sure if the Ultimarc products actually have a sync splitter in them already, or if they just pass on the composite video to your monitor to split itself.

Some monitors can happily take composite *video* into their the sync-in, and will ignore the Y/C part and only look at the sync signal. Some can't, and need the splitter I mentioned above. Some monitors (like my Kortek 26" in my generic LAI cab) have a switch on the chassis that allows you to choose between composite video (with sync) or composite sync alone, meaning you don't have to make your own sync splitter.

If you've got OK sync but still a few issues, it could mean you need a sync splitter to clean up the signal to keep your monitor happy.

gints
15th January 2008, 08:25 PM
hmmm a Kortek 26" in a generic LAI cab... that is EXACTLY what I have. Prob have same chassis? KTX26?

Now im starting to understand it more. From what I have read there seems to be no downside from giving the monitor COMPOSITE SYNC, even if it is supposedly capable of stripping from composite video.

Going to check chassis now, any hints on where this switch is if we share the same chasis?
I can forsee a potential problem if the PS2 is sending comp video, while the PC may send just comp sync.

gints
15th January 2008, 09:40 PM
OK I have just heard back from Ultimarc. The circuit on the board does separate the component sync from the component video, and the JPAC does the same for the PC output.

So I believe step 1 is to check if I have this switch on my chassis, and check if its chosen to accept composite sync, and not try to strip it from comp. video. If this doesnt remedy, do you believe it could be caused by either a touchy old pot on the monitor controls or possible the chassis Sync IC. There is another thread where I had what was thought to be vertical collapse, but ended up fixing it with a new pot on the VHeight control courtesy of David_AVD.

UPDATE: Flicked the two switches on the chassis, one made it worse vertically, the other did nothing. Are back in their original positions

gints
16th January 2008, 05:55 PM
Okay, I have VHold issues on the signals from both the PC and the PS2. To help reduce the number of possibilities I grabbed my SFA CPS2 board and hooked it up. Started with a half half picture and went just perfect after a quick touch of the VHold pot. This would suggest to me that the monitor and chassis seems to be okay.

This then leads down the path of thought that the JPAC is not sending its composite sync signal properly. Does anyone know how this may occur?

elvis
16th January 2008, 06:16 PM
Okay, I have VHold issues on the signals from both the PC and the PS2.

What signal were you feeding the monitor from the PC? (15KHz through an arcadevga? or something else?)

gints
16th January 2008, 06:56 PM
Yeah I basically have the all Ultimarc setup. ArcadeVGA into JPAC, and also the PS2 Video Cable into JPAC. I am switching between the two with a KVM which works well, and am confident this is not causing the syncing problems, as the ailment is the same with it directly connected.

gints
17th January 2008, 08:27 PM
OKAY now things are are better/worse depending on your viewpoint.

Just hooked up my original card (GeForce FX 5200 with Soft 15KHz) ran perfectly. Full screen, full sync, full colour.

So now I have the all in one ultimate solution not working, and the cheapo way running fine.

I can hear the PS2 hybrid cab fading into the background. Maybe I should be happy with my mame cab (it really is very good) and grab a second cab for the PS2 installation.

elvis
17th January 2008, 08:59 PM
Heh... now you sound like me. I started this hobby with the plan to have one almighty beast of an all-in-one cab. Today I have 4, and am planning numbers 5 and 6. :)

gints
17th January 2008, 09:24 PM
Hmmm I leave for Sri Lanka in a week, but the political situation is getting very dire over there (civilian bus bomb killed 24 yesterday). If I don't go I think I will be knocking on GameDudes door for a Megalo....

Back on topic tho, any possible thought now Elvis? Seemingly points to a suspect AVGA given the my GeForce worked...then that doesnt explain the PS2 probs.

Waiting to hear from Andy.

elvis
17th January 2008, 10:21 PM
How did you get the GeForce working? Did you use AdvanceMAME or Powerstrip? What's the max and min sync rate of your monitor?

gints
17th January 2008, 11:24 PM
No just Soft-15KHz. Ive been running the cab that since I got it around 8 months ago. Andy says the SYNC OK light is dependent upon a pulse from the Vertical Sync line. He thinks that perhaps the AVGA isnt sending proper V Sync. That doesnt really account for th PS2 issues owever, but one at a time I guess.

As for max min sync, I am not sure. It is a 26" Kortek with a KTX26 chassis in a generic LAI cab. All ive ever known is that is a single sync generic 15khz arcade screen and have based my projects around that etc.