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The Poor Man's DOF (Tactile Feedback)


RustyCardores

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If you like this Drunken Idea, be sure to check out my 'Virtual Pinball Toppers' at http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/83000-Virtual-Pinball-Topper

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***NEWS ALERT - December 2017***

 

We have changed our name to SSF (Surround Sound Feedback)

 

We are now on Facebook with our very own Surround Sound Feedback Group

 

 

***** JULY 2017 - NEW DEVELOPMENT!*****

 

Thanks to the efforts of DJRobX, Surround Sound is NOW AVAILABLE in VPX 10.4 Beta and some new tables have already been released to make use of this new feature, while other tables are being recoded by myself to make use of surround sound. **These recoded tables are being released at the table author's discretion, so please do not ask me for copies. Ask them and put the pressure on ;) lol ....It's important that table authors see the demand for surround coded tables.

 

VPX Surround is a game changer for PMD, as we will now be able to apply directional sound & feedback to any position on a table! I have been Beta testing this new development with my current PMD system and it is TOTALLY AMAZEBALLS!!!!

 

Those (like me) with a current "2 Amp - 4 Exciter" PMD system will be able to use this feature, provided that their sound card supports surround sound. New users yet to implement the system, may wish to consider using a single 7.1 surround sound amp or DJRobX's layout, in place of the additional subs required for PMD Mk1 (non-surround)

 

A visual representation of Surround config options...

 

PMD Mk1 (pre surround sound). Also Compatible with PMD Mk2 Surround Sound.

attachment.php?attachmentid=114430&d=1502148337

 

PMD Mk2 Surround Sound - Single Amp (expensive)

attachment.php?attachmentid=114431&d=1502148360

 

PMD Mk2 Surround Sound - Multiple Amps with Windows bass management to singular subwoofer (cheaper & can still utilise PMD Mk1 components)

attachment.php?attachmentid=115382&d=1503988784

 

**EXCITER PLACEMENT: Place them on the cab side wall close to the flipper/playfield level. Keep them about 15cm from the rigid corners of the cab. Too close and you may lose some of the vibes as the cab wall rigidity increases.

 

My links to the parts used. Please note that the Jaycar components listed here are also available in the USA....

 

2 x Lepy 838 Amps https://www.aliexpress.com and search "Lepy 838"

4 (5 if you want one under the lockdown) x 70mm Exciters https://www.jaycar.com.au/70mm-flat-panel-exciter-speaker/p/AS3039

1 x Subwoofer https://www.jaycar.com.au/4-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2190 (or https://www.jaycar.com.au/5-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2192 if you have space and a little more $)

Plus some speaker wire and a bit of timber to mount the audio sub (bracket it off the back of the cab or run it across from both sides... whatever works in your cab)

 

See also: http://vpuniverse.com/forums/topic/3232-new-vpx-feature-surround-sound-output/

 

So that's the current state of affairs with PMD. The diagrams above are self explanatory and thanks to these, we have found that users now have a much better understanding of PMD and the simplicity of the system.

 

I will continue to update the above section with new developments as they arise.

 

From this point on, you will be reading the development thread (contains installation images). Please note that early recommendations and results contained in this thread may no longer apply to the above PMD Mk2.

 

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ORIGINAL DEVELOPMENT THREAD CONTINUES.....

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*PLEASE NOTE: This thread covers the evolution of Poor Man's DOF (Sound Driven Tactile Feedback), please read to the end, as the PMD found there is far more advanced and effective that what you will find early in this thread.

 

Also, I will update this section with users's PMD reviews as they come in, rather than having you hunt for them through the thread....

 

1: 18mm High Density MDF - "Could be better. Too dense for really good vibe transmission. Exciter placement is critical." (Reported by @RustyCardores)

2: 16 or 18mm Pine (custom lockdown bar) - "Brilliant! Transmits every vibe from the smallest ball rolling to the loudest bumper. Hands on the actual vibe plate is extremely effective." (Reported by @RustyCardores)

3: Plywood (23 year old Judge Dredd) - "Excellent! JayCar Amp and Exciters mounted on side under flipper buttons." (Reported by @Jed)

4: Plywood (original F-14 cab with Dayton Exciters) - "WHAT AN EFFECT ! You can feel every bump, droptarget, kicker, and such, it's just great !" (Reported by @Nemo)

5: 16mm MDF - "I'm using a 16mm MDF CAB and and didn't expect much feel, but F#%cking amaze balls it feels real." (Reported by @DalasJ)

 

And for those of you who couldn't be stuffed reading this thread and just want to jump right in boots 'n all, here is my personal shopping list for the parts needed... (Most parts listed are from Jaycar Australia, but our international readers should easily be able to find matching products from local suppliers. Google is your friend!)

 

2 x Lepy 838 Amps https://www.aliexpress.com and search "Lepy 838"

4 (5 if you want one under the lockdown) x 70mm Exciters https://www.jaycar.com.au/70mm-flat-panel-exciter-speaker/p/AS3039

1 x Subwoofer https://www.jaycar.com.au/4-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2190 (or https://www.jaycar.com.au/5-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2192 if you have space and a little more $)

Plus some speaker wire and a bit of timber to mount the audio sub (bracket it off the back of the cab or run it across from both sides... whatever works in your cab)

 

Change from $200... how much will depend on what stuff you have laying around. I have heaps of RCA leads/splitters/speaker wire/timber from projects over the years and that has allowed me to keep things around the $150-160 mark.

 

*** PMD Scripts Mods (Table sound & balance tweaks to suit PMD configured pinCabs) are available at http://vpinball.com/VPBdownloads/categories/pmd-sound-driven-tactile-feedback/

 

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Original Post:

 

Doing an update on my vPinCab's tactile feedback today and thought some of you may like to see it.

 

Not having the $$$$ (or the will) to venture down the full on DOF route, I use a Boombox vibration sound driver mounted under my custom lockbar. Until today, I had one driver mounted in the middle, but I have now moved it to the side under my left hand and added a second Boombox under my right (used a 2x splitter on the TV audio out). This of course increases the amount of feedback that I feel.

 

Mechanical sounds have been separated from music/voice in VP's audio options and these are supplied the playfield TV and then on to the Boomboxes.

 

Boombox units (aka X-Vibe3) can be found online (China) for as little as $20 free delivery and they can be installed in less than a minute. If you have been wanting feedback, but are like me and $$$ or motivation has stopped you installing DOF, then I can recommend this method as a cheap & easy alternative.

 

It really is quite effective.... I feel every bump of the ball, I feel the flippers activate, hell I even feel the ball rolling on the table... and I don't think DOF even goes that far does it?

 

The only issue I see for some, is the sound itself. Boomboxes will turn anything into a speaker, but the sound will vary with the material used. Mine sounds great on a timber lockbar, but stainless may sound different. So I wouldn't rule out the need of laminating a bit of ply under the stainless to adjust the sound. #experiment

 

Cheers

 

Rusty

 

Boom1.thumb.jpg.fe082dd8aefaca50eb3096a43d847ece.jpg

Boom2.thumb.jpg.8e01f4818d524f9dd8a5ccc0f3a72f31.jpg

PMD-DIagram-3_DJRobX.thumb.jpg.a272cbd10be5e551cea93fbf6fad25a6.jpg

Edited by RustyCardores
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I just ordered some more amps, as it's time to PMD the second cab.

 

This cab will run my PMD4 (final rev): 2 amps, 5 exciters and a 5 inch audio sub... total cost $160.

 

One amp will run the L/R Front exciters plus a central lockdown sub exciter. The second amp will run the L/R rear exciters and the rear 5 inch audio sub. Using two amps like this is the cheapest and easiest way to gain volume adjustment (fade control) over every device.

 

It's been an interesting journey through PMD. I tried lots of different variations, but Mk4 is it. I don't see how I could possibly make it better..... with the exception of PMD+LEDwiz of course ;)

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I just ordered some more amps, as it's time to PMD the second cab.

 

This cab will run my PMD4 (final rev): 2 amps, 5 exciters and a 5 inch audio sub... total cost $160.

 

One amp will run the L/R Front exciters plus a central lockdown sub exciter. The second amp will run the L/R rear exciters and the rear 5 inch audio sub. Using two amps like this is the cheapest and easiest way to gain volume adjustment (fade control) over every device.

 

It's been an interesting journey through PMD. I tried lots of different variations, but Mk4 is it. I don't see how I could possibly make it better..... with the exception of PMD+LEDwiz of course ;)

 

Good on you for researching this @RustyCardores - it's always nice when someone else has done the trail blazing!!

 

I'll be modding my test rig and replacing its existing side panels with either ply or particleboard (I prefer ply!) so I can attach exciters beneath the flipper buttons which will then hopefully give me some nice tactile feedback.

 

I have a knockoff Lepai amp to hook the exciters up to and I'll plug the amp into the front panel headphone jack, then configure VP to use that as my secondary audio device. I'm keen to experience the results.........;)

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Hey guys, been lurking on this one for ages. Love the feedback idea for a table and using the sound rather than static solenoids seems like the go, not to mention the price different.

 

Any chance we could get a shopping list @RustyCardores ? Maybe even a few shots of the placement of gear? Would be awesome 😁

 

Thanks for the awesome posts

 

Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk

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RFS - PMD

 

I had a go this afternoon and got this up and running. What an amazing difference to the feel of the game. Now to take the next step and try and get the left flipper to sound the left exciter etc.

 

Who would have thought, two Exciters, an Amp and a settings change in VP could have such a profound effect.

 

Rusty for President.

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How are you guys running the 3 speaker on the lepai ? or are you using a lepai 2.1 that has the sub output ?

 

I'm using the 2.1 with sub output. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lepy-LP-838-Car-Channel-Amplifier-Stereo-Subwoofer-Audio-Accessory-for-Car-Motorbike-Home/32766364677.html

 

One to run front 3 exciters and a second to run the rear 2 exciters plus an audio sub. Having separate sub/volume controls and two amps allows full control over volume levels front/back & audio/sub-shake. It takes about 5 mins of tweaking levels, but once right it's a "set & forget".

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

RFS - PMD

 

I had a go this afternoon and got this up and running. What an amazing difference to the feel of the game. Now to take the next step and try and get the left flipper to sound the left exciter etc.

 

Who would have thought, two Exciters, an Amp and a settings change in VP could have such a profound effect.

 

Rusty for President.

 

Awesome to hear reports of people loving the result :)

 

When you are tweaking the left/right balance, it is rare that you will want balance fully left or fully right (ie -1 & 1). A lot of tables already have some balance applied in the script but often need just that little bit more. So remember that you are not aiming to have the sound appear to come from from your left hand, get the balance right and it will appear to come from the flipper itself... so tweak the decimal values ;)

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Good on you for researching this @RustyCardores - it's always nice when someone else has done the trail blazing!!

 

I'll be modding my test rig and replacing its existing side panels with either ply or particleboard (I prefer ply!) so I can attach exciters beneath the flipper buttons which will then hopefully give me some nice tactile feedback.

 

I have a knockoff Lepai amp to hook the exciters up to and I'll plug the amp into the front panel headphone jack, then configure VP to use that as my secondary audio device. I'm keen to experience the results.........;)

 

Ply definitely seems to be the go if using audio exciters. MDF is just too darn dense for really good vibe transmission :( Mine gets saves by the custom timber lockdown & its extra sub exciter as far as the vibes are concerned. The audio from the MDF is good however.

 

Particle board would probably work as well as it's far from dense... probably even less so than ply, but you wouldn't want to build a cab from it. #IKEAcab lol

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Hey guys, been lurking on this one for ages. Love the feedback idea for a table and using the sound rather than static solenoids seems like the go, not to mention the price different.

 

Any chance we could get a shopping list @RustyCardores ? Maybe even a few shots of the placement of gear? Would be awesome ��

 

Thanks for the awesome posts

 

Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk

 

There are some shots back up the thread, but when the extra kit arrives for Cab 2 I'll take some new shots during the install. I really don't feel like pulling mine apart again at the moment ;)

 

As far as shopping list goes....

 

2 x https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Lepy-LP-838-Car-Channel-Amplifier-Stereo-Subwoofer-Audio-Accessory-for-Car-Motorbike-Home/32766364677.html

4 (5 if you want one under the lockdown) x https://www.jaycar.com.au/70mm-flat-panel-exciter-speaker/p/AS3039

1 x https://www.jaycar.com.au/4-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2190 (or https://www.jaycar.com.au/5-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2192 if you have space and a little more $)

1 x https://www.jaycar.com.au/3-5mm-stereo-plug-to-2-x-3-5mm-stereo-sockets-adaptor/p/PA3582 (or the lead equivalent)

2 x https://www.jaycar.com.au/3-5mm-stereo-plug-to-2-x-rca-plugs-audio-lead-1-5m/p/WA7014

Plus some speaker wire and a bit of timber to mount the audio sub (bracket it off the back of the cab or run it across from both sides... whatever works in your cab)

 

Change from $200... how much will depend on what stuff you have laying around. I have heaps of RCA leads/splitters/speaker wire/timber from projects over the years and that has allowed me to keep things around the $150-160 mark.

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Thanks heaps for the list. I think I can piece it together with the first pics but when you get the chance with cab 2 a picture would be great.

 

Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk

 

It's really simple...

 

In Windows, make your regular speaker system the Default or Primary sound device

Ensure that in VP Audio prefs music is being sent to "Primary Output Device"

Send VP mechanical audio to your secondary sound device.

Split secondary sound device audio output into two and feed both Amp1 & Amp2

 

Install...

One tactile exciter under each flipper button. - Connect to left/right speaker output of Amp1

One tactile speaker under lockdown (or on floor off cab near front if you prefer because of stainless lockdown - Experiment!) - Connect to sub output of Amp1

One tactile exciter each side of back wall of cab (I have mine near the bottom) - Connect to left/right speaker output of Amp2

One audio sub mounted (in whatever fashion suits your cab) in the middle at the rear of your cab - Connect to sub output of Amp2

 

* Adjust Amp1 & Amp2 main volumes for both sound level and "balance" between front and back. (aim is to make it sound like the sound is coming from the playfield, not just up the front of the cab)

* Adjust Amp1 sub output for extra "feel".

* Adjust Amp2 sub output for extra bass tone and additional rear balance.

* Enjoy virtual pinball like you have never enjoyed before ;)

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I'll add to this if you are like me and a bit lazier but also want to save yourself a bit of time and money you can go the 'Lite' PMD version which is just 1x exciter under each flipper button, and 1x amp connected to your playfield TV, no splitting needed. that's it. it helps though, if your cab is made out of plywood rather than mdf, as you'll get max feel with plywood. so if your cab is MDF, the full monty version might be the way to go ?

 

to be honest, when i'm playing my real pinballs, i don't really notice where the feedback is coming from in the cabinet, ie front/rear - i just feel the pops and slings etc. it's the same with the Vpin and PMD, i just notice all the table elements all now have feel and they correspond to left/right. Like anything I guess, depends how much time and money you want to put into it.

 

Either way - Rusty's PMD is shitloads cheaper and easier aand better than trad DOF and gets my vote for thread of the year on AA :D

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Wow they are cheap! I'll be very interested to hear how they go. If they do as well as our Jaycar ones, the price of PMD has just dropped again! :)

Edited by RustyCardores
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Those are good for our American friends but that price is US$ and also that shipping is priced only within the US.

 

For us aussies off the shelf from Jaycar is still cheaper than that (given international shipping would break that deal) plus you get to check out the uber-geeks that staff jaycar and listen to their wacky conversations which is worth the price also!

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http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170103/6ee31b80e861b16050ffb8be308d6f2d.jpg

 

After dragging this around for the last 25 years - its day has finally come.....

 

Thanks Rusty [emoji6]

 

Are you going to put it in your cab, or just wear it? ;) lol

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170103/6ee31b80e861b16050ffb8be308d6f2d.jpg

 

After dragging this around for the last 25 years - its day has finally come.....

 

Thanks Rusty [emoji6]

 

I remember seeing those years ago in Jaycar - they were trying to sell them as clearance stock for FIVE DOLLARS EACH!!!!!!!!! Naturally I didn't buy any.........

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Spend about $1 more and get this one:

https://www.amazon.com/Dayton-Audio-DAEX25FHE-4-Efficiency-Exciter/dp/B00PY66ZCC/ref=pd_sim_23_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=QZGMV6MT7CQHJXK60WMV

 

It is framed and has mounting holes rather than just 3M adhesive, and is also more powerful that the one you linked.

 

If you're keen, have a look at the Parts Express website - they have a large selection of exciters and bass shakers to choose from.

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A quick update, i just finish installing 3 exciters on the front and WOW im impress i dint do anything special than going to the Audio option and selecting the new output. Tommorrow i will wire the extra 2 exciters and 5" sub. do i need to do anything special in the settings or scrip ? i will post some pic tomorrow and maybe a short video.
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A quick update, i just finish installing 3 exciters on the front and WOW im impress i dint do anything special than going to the Audio option and selecting the new output. Tommorrow i will wire the extra 2 exciters and 5" sub. do i need to do anything special in the settings or scrip ? i will post some pic tomorrow and maybe a short video.

 

For the most part, tables are ready to go as is..... BUT (there is always a but) you may find that some sounds (on a table by table basis) need to be toggled to the Background so that they still come from your regular speakers not the exciters. To do this, open the table in the editor, open the Sound Manager, select the sound or sounds and click "Toggle to background". Then save the changes, close the table and then re-open to test.

 

You especially must do this^^ for any music/.wav files that are fed to tables from VP's /Music folder.... Also be aware of a quirk of VP when it comes to these music files. In Windows the sound device that runs your regular speakers must be the default sound device and in VP you must select "Primary Sound Device" and not the device's actual name.

 

Now from table to table you can edit the sounds to your own liking in the script (see Page 10 of this thread for instructions on how add volume multipliers and partial volume multipliers) or you can totally change sound files by importing new versions in the editors sound manager. But as I said, for the most part, tables are generally ready to play as is and only need minor script adjustment to "personal taste".

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Just an update of where PMD may be headed, as more and more users come on board.....

 

I'm currently working with some table authors on an update to one of their (what I would call "Top 5") VPX tables. The goal being that PMD is considered throughout the sound scripting and that the table is "ready to play" for PMD users.

 

Naturally, I can't set levels that will suit each and every cab, but if you are using at least the minimum install of two flat mount exciters located near the flippers, then things should be a pretty close. So things like additional/missing post bumps sounds will be added, volumes adjusted for a more uniform output and also balance added for directional sound. (plunger sound will appear to come from the plunger... that kind of thing)

 

The big thing is that the code will be there and highlighted in the script as a PMD mod on a line by line basis. So it will be easy for users to identify the code and make simple adjustments to suit their own cab.

 

I just tested the table update with PMD and it's awesome. I have also just tested it with PMD off and the mechanicals sent to the regular audio and it's bloody terrible!! How did I ever play without PMD??? lol

 

What this second test was designed to show me, was if the PMD code changes would effect non-PMD cabs adversely.... and I would have to say, yes they did. As the sound levels were just not right for a regular cab. With this in mind, I'm thinking that "PMD Ready" tables will need to be their own release and bundled with the regular "non-PMD" versions. The decision to do this or not, will of course lie with the table authors.

 

One another PMD note.... There has been talk of creating a VPX3 "Feature Request" thread on VPF. Please keep an eye out for that and if you can, throw some support behind PMD. Currently we have control over volume and L/R balance and pitch in the script. We also have control over sending mechanicals to a secondary audio device.... But we have no control of Front to Back fading of the sounds. This is what I would like to see added.

 

If VPX recognised a third sound device and allowed up to "toggle" sounds to this third device (not just the second BG device), then we would have "directional" sound control. eg Flippers and plunger sounds from the front, Pop bumpers from the rear.

 

For further control, the addition of a volume slider on a sound by sound basis in the Sound Manager would be a dream!

 

Take that one step further and add a Balance slider as well.... just imagine being able to select an individual sound, send it to the back or front, adjust it's volume and tell it to come from either the left or right. We could literally make a sound appear to come from anything on the table. Oh the dream!! ;)

 

 

---------

 

EDIT: OK the last bit re volume and balance we can do now in the script, so all we really need is the ability to select a third sound device and toggle sounds to it (might stand a better chance of getting this if we keep it simple). That said, the volume/balance slider controls in the sound manager would be awesome, as it would save the script mods. :)

Edited by RustyCardores
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Rusty,

 

I might be a bit crazy here....I've been thinking about shaker motors. I've been doing a fair bit of Xbox 360 controller hacking lately and have leftover rumble motors. I wonder whether they could be put to use as poor man's shaker motors?

 

Won't be able to investigate this for a while but thought I'd mention it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Arcade

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Rusty,

 

I might be a bit crazy here....I've been thinking about shaker motors. I've been doing a fair bit of Xbox 360 controller hacking lately and have leftover rumble motors. I wonder whether they could be put to use as poor man's shaker motors?

 

Won't be able to investigate this for a while but thought I'd mention it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Aussie Arcade

 

 

I would imagine that they are power driven, so you could probably use them in a traditional DOF setup, but not with "sound driven" PMD

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