Jump to content
Due to a large amount of spamers, accounts will now have to be approved by the Admins so please be patient. ×
  • 0
IGNORED

The Poor Man's DOF (Tactile Feedback)


RustyCardores

Question

***********************************************************************************************************************

If you like this Drunken Idea, be sure to check out my 'Virtual Pinball Toppers' at http://www.aussiearcade.com/showthread.php/83000-Virtual-Pinball-Topper

***********************************************************************************************************************

 

***NEWS ALERT - December 2017***

 

We have changed our name to SSF (Surround Sound Feedback)

 

We are now on Facebook with our very own Surround Sound Feedback Group

 

 

***** JULY 2017 - NEW DEVELOPMENT!*****

 

Thanks to the efforts of DJRobX, Surround Sound is NOW AVAILABLE in VPX 10.4 Beta and some new tables have already been released to make use of this new feature, while other tables are being recoded by myself to make use of surround sound. **These recoded tables are being released at the table author's discretion, so please do not ask me for copies. Ask them and put the pressure on ;) lol ....It's important that table authors see the demand for surround coded tables.

 

VPX Surround is a game changer for PMD, as we will now be able to apply directional sound & feedback to any position on a table! I have been Beta testing this new development with my current PMD system and it is TOTALLY AMAZEBALLS!!!!

 

Those (like me) with a current "2 Amp - 4 Exciter" PMD system will be able to use this feature, provided that their sound card supports surround sound. New users yet to implement the system, may wish to consider using a single 7.1 surround sound amp or DJRobX's layout, in place of the additional subs required for PMD Mk1 (non-surround)

 

A visual representation of Surround config options...

 

PMD Mk1 (pre surround sound). Also Compatible with PMD Mk2 Surround Sound.

attachment.php?attachmentid=114430&d=1502148337

 

PMD Mk2 Surround Sound - Single Amp (expensive)

attachment.php?attachmentid=114431&d=1502148360

 

PMD Mk2 Surround Sound - Multiple Amps with Windows bass management to singular subwoofer (cheaper & can still utilise PMD Mk1 components)

attachment.php?attachmentid=115382&d=1503988784

 

**EXCITER PLACEMENT: Place them on the cab side wall close to the flipper/playfield level. Keep them about 15cm from the rigid corners of the cab. Too close and you may lose some of the vibes as the cab wall rigidity increases.

 

My links to the parts used. Please note that the Jaycar components listed here are also available in the USA....

 

2 x Lepy 838 Amps https://www.aliexpress.com and search "Lepy 838"

4 (5 if you want one under the lockdown) x 70mm Exciters https://www.jaycar.com.au/70mm-flat-panel-exciter-speaker/p/AS3039

1 x Subwoofer https://www.jaycar.com.au/4-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2190 (or https://www.jaycar.com.au/5-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2192 if you have space and a little more $)

Plus some speaker wire and a bit of timber to mount the audio sub (bracket it off the back of the cab or run it across from both sides... whatever works in your cab)

 

See also: http://vpuniverse.com/forums/topic/3232-new-vpx-feature-surround-sound-output/

 

So that's the current state of affairs with PMD. The diagrams above are self explanatory and thanks to these, we have found that users now have a much better understanding of PMD and the simplicity of the system.

 

I will continue to update the above section with new developments as they arise.

 

From this point on, you will be reading the development thread (contains installation images). Please note that early recommendations and results contained in this thread may no longer apply to the above PMD Mk2.

 

______________________________________

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*****************************************

ORIGINAL DEVELOPMENT THREAD CONTINUES.....

*****************************************

 

 

*PLEASE NOTE: This thread covers the evolution of Poor Man's DOF (Sound Driven Tactile Feedback), please read to the end, as the PMD found there is far more advanced and effective that what you will find early in this thread.

 

Also, I will update this section with users's PMD reviews as they come in, rather than having you hunt for them through the thread....

 

1: 18mm High Density MDF - "Could be better. Too dense for really good vibe transmission. Exciter placement is critical." (Reported by @RustyCardores)

2: 16 or 18mm Pine (custom lockdown bar) - "Brilliant! Transmits every vibe from the smallest ball rolling to the loudest bumper. Hands on the actual vibe plate is extremely effective." (Reported by @RustyCardores)

3: Plywood (23 year old Judge Dredd) - "Excellent! JayCar Amp and Exciters mounted on side under flipper buttons." (Reported by @Jed)

4: Plywood (original F-14 cab with Dayton Exciters) - "WHAT AN EFFECT ! You can feel every bump, droptarget, kicker, and such, it's just great !" (Reported by @Nemo)

5: 16mm MDF - "I'm using a 16mm MDF CAB and and didn't expect much feel, but F#%cking amaze balls it feels real." (Reported by @DalasJ)

 

And for those of you who couldn't be stuffed reading this thread and just want to jump right in boots 'n all, here is my personal shopping list for the parts needed... (Most parts listed are from Jaycar Australia, but our international readers should easily be able to find matching products from local suppliers. Google is your friend!)

 

2 x Lepy 838 Amps https://www.aliexpress.com and search "Lepy 838"

4 (5 if you want one under the lockdown) x 70mm Exciters https://www.jaycar.com.au/70mm-flat-panel-exciter-speaker/p/AS3039

1 x Subwoofer https://www.jaycar.com.au/4-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2190 (or https://www.jaycar.com.au/5-paper-cone-woofer-midrange/p/CW2192 if you have space and a little more $)

Plus some speaker wire and a bit of timber to mount the audio sub (bracket it off the back of the cab or run it across from both sides... whatever works in your cab)

 

Change from $200... how much will depend on what stuff you have laying around. I have heaps of RCA leads/splitters/speaker wire/timber from projects over the years and that has allowed me to keep things around the $150-160 mark.

 

*** PMD Scripts Mods (Table sound & balance tweaks to suit PMD configured pinCabs) are available at http://vpinball.com/VPBdownloads/categories/pmd-sound-driven-tactile-feedback/

 

---------------------------------------------

Original Post:

 

Doing an update on my vPinCab's tactile feedback today and thought some of you may like to see it.

 

Not having the $$$$ (or the will) to venture down the full on DOF route, I use a Boombox vibration sound driver mounted under my custom lockbar. Until today, I had one driver mounted in the middle, but I have now moved it to the side under my left hand and added a second Boombox under my right (used a 2x splitter on the TV audio out). This of course increases the amount of feedback that I feel.

 

Mechanical sounds have been separated from music/voice in VP's audio options and these are supplied the playfield TV and then on to the Boomboxes.

 

Boombox units (aka X-Vibe3) can be found online (China) for as little as $20 free delivery and they can be installed in less than a minute. If you have been wanting feedback, but are like me and $$$ or motivation has stopped you installing DOF, then I can recommend this method as a cheap & easy alternative.

 

It really is quite effective.... I feel every bump of the ball, I feel the flippers activate, hell I even feel the ball rolling on the table... and I don't think DOF even goes that far does it?

 

The only issue I see for some, is the sound itself. Boomboxes will turn anything into a speaker, but the sound will vary with the material used. Mine sounds great on a timber lockbar, but stainless may sound different. So I wouldn't rule out the need of laminating a bit of ply under the stainless to adjust the sound. #experiment

 

Cheers

 

Rusty

 

Boom1.thumb.jpg.fe082dd8aefaca50eb3096a43d847ece.jpg

Boom2.thumb.jpg.8e01f4818d524f9dd8a5ccc0f3a72f31.jpg

PMD-DIagram-3_DJRobX.thumb.jpg.a272cbd10be5e551cea93fbf6fad25a6.jpg

Edited by RustyCardores
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Answers 491
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters For This Question

Top Posters For This Question

Posted Images

Recommended Posts

  • 0

I have been reading though this thread with interest. I have two 16 ohm Dayton pucks connected to a Aura Interactor Amp that I brought ages ago ( see here http://archive.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_102488/article.html ) I'm not using it for VP but for home theatre. I have cut holes in two small pieces of wood then screwed them to the underneath edge of my lounge. So far it has been a bit hit and miss with shakers. eg. with music and some movies etc. I can hear the bass shakers which is annoying. Other times it works really well, almost too well, I was watching Stranger Things and I got crap scared out of me when the lounge suddenly shook in a quite part of the show.

I might try a small amp instead of the Aura amp and see if that works any better. It was just nice to use something that was "one day I might use that so I will keep it" :)

 

PS

The X-Vibes look very interesting I might get some and see how they compare or add them in with the pucks so it might be like an earthquake :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

I just thought of something.... one combination I didn't try, was using the xvibes under the lockdown and a tactile pick up the back inside my cab for the balance (in place of the sub).

 

Hmmm, me thinks I'll pull the cab apart again this arvo and try that.

 

I'd do it now, but the wife has got me heading out to look at Volvos :(

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Hey you know what? That's not bad at all! :)

 

I place the pucks right down the back at the base of my cab and connected one to the Lepy Amp's sub-woofer (bass) output and the other to one of the normal output channels. The X-Vibes are still up under my lockbar as normal. I have removed the little sub (just don't need it now) and it will find a new home in my BeerKeg MAME.

 

PMDOF5.thumb.jpg.c6edc0c555997fa25cb15e8af00a29e8.jpg

 

I've left space on the right to add another later, if I find that using only one channel is problematic. (Are the mechanical sounds from VP mono or stereo? If stereo, I will need to add a third for the other channel)

 

Running them on separate outputs like this, allows me to adjust the low bass sounds separately from the higher tones and this means that an "overall balance" can be achieved with the X-Vibes up front.

 

PMDOF6.thumb.jpg.b38deba0467b45d7862bbb01c7a7eb21.jpg

 

It's been quite a bit of trial and error to get to this point, but well worth the effort.... and total cost? Well, even with 2 x X-Vibes, 2 x Pucks, 1 x amp and a couple of adapters, it has still come in just under 100 bucks ...and that's cheap DOF! ;)

 

EDIT: I should mention that nothing has really changed as far as my earlier wiring photo.... it's just now that the audio lead from the TV that was feeding the sub, now feeds the amp instead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
Just realised I won't be able to try out this on my test rig, as I'm using a PC monitor via HDMI for my playfield and it doesn't have audio out.......:(

 

Just use of these instead https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32617141109.html

 

... or any other secondary sound card. I grabbed one of those and it works a treat. Amazing what you can get for just a few bucks.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

The Poor Man's DOF (Tactile Feedback)

 

So apparently left and right channels can be separated in the VP sound subroutines. ie left flipper can be told to come out left speaker, right out of right etc.

 

Looks like I'm doing a trip to jaycar then. I'll use a 3.5mm to (L/R) RCA lead to separate the feed, but I will need a couple of RCA to 3.5mm sockets to connect the X-Vibes to it.

 

It would be nice if there was a 3.5mm lead that separated into 3.5mm L/R sockets, but I'm pretty sure they don't exist. :(

 

I think I'll also order another puck for the back of the cab. Having 3 will give me both L and R, plus a shaker on the separate sub output.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

I was just at JayCar to get those RCA adapters and found they had tactile pucks. A little smaller than the ones we have used so far, but still rated to 15w. Easier to mount too, as they are flush surface mount.

 

see: https://www.jaycar.com.au/70mm-flat-panel-exciter-speaker/p/AS3039

 

I grabbed one to see what they are like. I think a lot of people may even be able to squeeze these under the lockdown in place of the X-Vibes.... they will need to be driven from an amp of course, I doubt if the computer's audio out would have enough oomph, but you never know??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

I attached the Jaycar exciter under my lockbar and connected it to the amp's sub output.... WOW! Mega-vibes!

 

Very little audible too, just heaps of bass vibration.

 

I'll test how well it works with the higher frequencies from one of the regular L/R channels tomorrow.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
I attached the Jaycar exciter under my lockbar and connected it to the amp's sub output.... WOW! Mega-vibes!

 

Very little audible too, just heaps of bass vibration.

 

I'll test how well it works with the higher frequencies from one of the regular L/R channels tomorrow.

 

i might head to jaycar tomorrow for these.

 

what would you reccomend in the way of an amp to drive them ? my current sound system for the pincab is a logitech sub in the cab and sattelites in the headbox. I don't have any way to plug anything else into that existing amp...

 

jaycar have this, sure you could get cheaper online but this looks rock-solid and off the shelf buying is good for my impatience

 

https://www.jaycar.com.au/low-cost-mains-powered-stereo-amplifier/p/AA0472

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
i might head to jaycar tomorrow for these.

 

what would you reccomend in the way of an amp to drive them ? my current sound system for the pincab is a logitech sub in the cab and sattelites in the headbox. I don't have any way to plug anything else into that existing amp...

 

maybe jaycar might have a simple, small amp too, will have a look

 

Yeah you will need a second amp, as you will need to be able to adjust levels independently from your regular sound.

 

I got this amp for $13 delivered off AliExpress.

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161116/c874dd3c9004fb6ad863351019483787.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
Yeah you will need a second amp, as you will need to be able to adjust levels independently from your regular sound.

 

I got this amp for $13 delivered off AliExpress.

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161116/c874dd3c9004fb6ad863351019483787.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

So that's a seperate sub volume control on the left. Having used this one now, I'd definitely recommend having that.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Well I have the parts and I'm set to go with this Claytons DOF, picked up an amp off the shelf too. I wonder if these speakers will fit on the underside of my steel lockdown bar, I use a real Pinball cab for my vpin (Judge Dredd) but I guess I can mount the Exciters near the flipper buttons if I can't fit it under the lockdown. Interested to try this out and compare to my (short lived) relay/solenoids experiment, still have not purchased replacement solenoids yet :)

 

more tinkering at hand....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
Well I have the parts and I'm set to go with this Claytons DOF, picked up an amp off the shelf too. I wonder if these speakers will fit on the underside of my steel lockdown bar, I use a real Pinball cab for my vpin (Judge Dredd) but I guess I can mount the Exciters near the flipper buttons if I can't fit it under the lockdown. Interested to try this out and compare to my (short lived) relay/solenoids experiment, still have not purchased replacement solenoids yet :)

 

more tinkering at hand....

 

 

Awesome! Do lots of tinkering and trying different locations for different results. I suggest a couple of small pads of double sided tape for the tinkering stage as you move things around. Then add screws and holes later when you have decided on a spot (or just use a big pad of double sided tape and avoid the holes altogether)

 

I have just put my cab back together after lots of tinkering. I tried my 2 pucks down the back on the side of the cabinet (looking for a little L/R separation), but the larger area of the cab side changed the sound significantly. I preferred them on the back panel, so I moved them back to there.

 

I tinkered with the JayCar exciter too, placed it on the side near the flippers but still preferred it under my lockdown. The high density MDF of my cab really doesn't want to vibrate all that well. :(

 

There is no way I could fit two exciters under my lockbar (one under each hand) due to all the MAME controls, so I squeezed just the one in the middle. I needed to shave off three sides to make it fit. Pretty much just made it square-ish leaving about 2mm outside the mount holes (used the side of the fine stone on my bench grinder for this) and I attached it under my lockdown using double sided tape and no screws.

 

Now because I'm running the exciter off the sub-woofer amp, it only gets the low vibe frequencies... so I have left the two x-Vibes in place under my hands as these have always produced good sound as well as some vibes. I really should have tried the exciter on the regular side of the amp, as perhaps with a full range signal I could have done away with the x-vibes all together??? Hmmmm, I just really like the extra thump from the sub amp though. Perhaps I'll try the full range thing on Cab #2 and if it's good, I'll open mine back up again for the surgical removal.

 

So, once everything was back together (inc glass on, as that changes the sound) I spent a little time getting the balance between front-back & sub-regular channels to my liking. Lots of little tiny fine twists on my knobs, but got there in the end and now that it's set I don't need to touch it again.

 

The result?

 

F***ING AWESOME!!!!!!!!

 

I mean the X-Vibes and just a small sub down the back of the cab for balance was good..... but the extra bass thump from this exciter rounds out the feedback perfectly! :)

 

One concern I did have though, is that with the sound levels now set, how do I play quietly late at night? But thinking about it, I see a few options....

 

1: I can simply turn off the power to Lepy amp and that will leave only the X-Vibes running (much quieter)

2: Now that I have the amp & X-Vibes receiving their signal from a USB sound card (and not from the TV), I can simply drag the Windows volume slider

or

3: I could just be a total arsehat and tell my wife that "I'M PLAYING PINBALL GOD DAMN IT!" and then sleep on the couch for a week.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
[...] I could just be a total arsehat and tell my wife that "I'M PLAYING PINBALL GOD DAMN IT!" and then sleep on the couch for a week.

 

haha, good lol there. I have a mancave (garage) for my Arcades and Pinnies so sound wont be an issue for me. My wife tells me though she can hear my real pinballs when I am playing them, those mechanical sounds really travel, so I guess my neighbours must too... they've never complained, and I've never complained about their raucous backyard parties where the husband is louder and more exciteable than any of the young kids - so I guess we are even?

 

Question about using double sided tape though - wouldn't that dampen the sound transfer to the cab's body ? Just a speculative question. I'll be checking out dimensions tonight, but I reckon I might just be able to squeeze these things exciters onto the underside of the lockdown - but if i do, I wont be able to screw them into it, a real lockdown bar doesn't have the thickness to accommodate that, and i wouldn't want to risk drilling through. I've not made any external alterations to my JD cab - I wanted to keep it the same as it was originally in the 'real' pinball world - so I haven't drilled any extra holes and don't want to. The inside though, that's open slather :)

 

PS - great thread you started here. Kudos!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0
haha, good lol there. I have a mancave (garage) for my Arcades and Pinnies so sound wont be an issue for me. My wife tells me though she can hear my real pinballs when I am playing them, those mechanical sounds really travel, so I guess my neighbours must too... they've never complained, and I've never complained about their raucous backyard parties where the husband is louder and more exciteable than any of the young kids - so I guess we are even?

 

Question about using double sided tape though - wouldn't that dampen the sound transfer to the cab's body ? Just a speculative question. I'll be checking out dimensions tonight, but I reckon I might just be able to squeeze these things exciters onto the underside of the lockdown - but if i do, I wont be able to screw them into it, a real lockdown bar doesn't have the thickness to accommodate that, and i wouldn't want to risk drilling through. I've not made any external alterations to my JD cab - I wanted to keep it the same as it was originally in the 'real' pinball world - so I haven't drilled any extra holes and don't want to. The inside though, that's open slather :)

 

PS - great thread you started here. Kudos!

 

Cheers ;)

 

I'm yet to build my arcade room up the back in my shed next to 'Blokes World'. I'm taking over the tac bay next to the stables and since we don't have horses anymore it's a bit hard for the wife to argue with. ;)

 

I'm currently collecting old corro sheds as they fall down around the place. My plan is for it to look like an all barn on the inside.

 

As for ds tape.... you may be surprised how well the sound and vibes still transfer if you use the good thin stuff and not that big puffy looking stuff.

 

I'll post a pic of my tape when I get back home. The other option is a little dab of silicon, but you might have to wait before you can test them.

 

... btw, x-vibes work on a double sided reusable sticky pad, so it's pretty normal.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

The Poor Man's DOF (Tactile Feedback)

 

Was just thinking... this thread needs a part 2 that explains how to adjust the volume of the individual sound files within the script.

 

Most tables are pretty good out of the can, but with Poor Man's DOF you will find that you want to make some sounds either louder or quieter.

 

Also being able to send some sounds to either left or right channels is cool. I'll work out how to do that and post a tutorial later tonight (assuming that I figure it out)

 

The Pan function in the sound subroutine tracks the position of the active ball on the table and "pans" the sound either left or right. This function should be ok as is, but if wanting to force a sound left or right, I'm going to guess that Pan can be replaced with a predetermined call... I'm going to guess -1 for left, 0 for both and 1 for right.... but I'm most likely wrong. ;)

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by RustyCardores
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

A little mod....

 

The audio for the mechanicals still splits at the source so that it feeds both the Lepy amp and the X-Vibes.

 

But I now split the audio to the X-Vibes into seperate left and right channels

 

So, left channel feeds left X-Vibe and Right feeds the right X-Vibe. This of course means that stereo sound is supported and VP's audio balance is respected.

 

ie Flipper sounds appear to come from the right direction.... that kinda thing. :)

 

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161117/e5216d3653d791393a688a48778ebe00.jpg

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

SoundCode1.thumb.jpg.bc3d2abcef3d1d6210b1741c2d55fc2e.jpg

 

A quick explanation of how to change volume and balance. I'll need to right this up better, but to get you started.....

 

If you look at the code in the pic above, you will see a series of numbers that come after the "Playsound" call. The second number is volume, the third is balance. Other numbers are there for pitch etc, but we will just concern ourselves with volume and balance for now.

 

The sample shows volume at .67 - If full volume was required, this could simply be changed to 1 - If less volume was required, it could be changed to .1 or .05 etc. Experiment with the numbers, as the final output level will depend on the sound device being used. (**I think multiples could be used also... ie 2 or 3 to amplify the sound)

 

Sometimes you will see PlaySound calls without any numbers following. That's OK, if you wish to adjust the sound, just add the numbers. Always add them in the manner you see in this pic. Same order, commas, spaces etc

 

btw, you don't need to add them all. For example if you just wanted to reduce the sound of...

 

PlaySound SoundFX("Farty_Noise")

 

change it to

 

PlaySound SoundFX("Farty_Noise"), 0, .5

 

If you want to reduce the sound AND move it to the right channnel, change it to

 

PlaySound SoundFX("Farty_Noise"), 0, .5, 1

 

If you want the sound to come from the left channel only, then use

 

PlaySound SoundFX("Farty_Noise"), 0, .5, -1

 

and you can weight the balance too, so that sound comes from both channels but favours one. This is done by using decimals as in the pic above.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]101420[/ATTACH]

 

Sometimes you will see a PlaySound call made like the following. In these cases it's not a straight out volume that has been set, but instead it's linked to ball speed etc.

 

PlaySound("Farty_Noise"), 0, Vol(Bot(b) ),

 

or something like , Vol(ActiveBall),

 

In these cases a multiplier or partial multiplier may be used

 

PlaySound("Farty_Noise"), 0, Vol(Bot(b) )*2, (this increases the volume)

 

PlaySound("Farty_Noise"), 0, Vol(Bot(b) )*.2, (this decreases the volume)

 

Similarly...

 

PlaySound("Farty_Noise"), 0, Vol(ActiveBall)*2, (this increases the volume)

 

PlaySound("Farty_Noise"), 0, Vol(ActiveBall)*.2, (this decreases the volume)

 

Again, in these cases experiment with the numbers to find what's right for your output device. At times, numbers as small as *.005 may be required.

 

Well I hope that's easy enough to understand and is enough to get you started guys. Cheers.

Edited by RustyCardores
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

i set mine up tonight, walked into jaycar at lunchtime and picked up 2x the digitech exciters, and bought a really solid little amp, solid metal, good quality. i don't need any other bits as i have a bin full of audio bits and pieces at home from arcade and pinball projects over the years..

 

it's ****ing amazing !!!! this is exactly what has been missing from my vpin for the last 3 years, real tactile feedback for every single table element.

 

what really got me was feeling the little things like when the ball drops into a chute, or the feel from a kickout. you feel drop targets being hit and dropping. and everything still sounds tiiiiiight. and EM chimes - holy crap. when the ball drops onto the playfield surface from a wire ramp - it feels like a real ball dropping onto the playfield surface, even the subtle, muted feel of a bounce pass - you feel EVERYTHING you feel from a table in real pinball. the sensations from pop bumpers and slings is so realistic! i flicked on my Pin*Bot, i needed a dose of reality to truly guage the feel. but going from one to the other....this PMD system using 2x exciter vibe-speakers feels extremely close to the real thing. i would not have credited it. i'm just seriously amazed and really happy cause playing the vpin just got a whole lot more enjoyable and realistic.

 

i screw mounted the exciters flush against the inside walls of my cab, one under each flipper button and ran an output from my playfield tv's headphone jack to the new amp, and did the software audio separation in vp settings and that's basically all i had to do to have correct left and right seperation of playfield elements. the vibes from the exciters are nuts at full volume on the amp - i had to run them at about 60% on the amp to match what a real table feels like.

 

thanks to rusty for promoting this idea. having tried the relay/solenoids system briefly a while back (before my solenoids burned out, lol) i'd have to say this system feels HEAPS better than the solenoid/relay tactile feedback method [cause you feel absolutely everything] and is massively easier to achieve - in 20 minutes i was setup and playing.

 

PMD FTW. two thumbs up from me :023: :023:

Edited by Jed
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

WooHoo!! So glad it works for you Jed. Now that you have it, you will find that there is a total disconnect with the table if you ever play without it. It will just feel wrong. Do you plan to add a sub or something down the back for balance? This makes a big difference too when the illusion of sound direction is added also.

 

May I ask what timber your cabinet is made of please. I want to keep a list for people so they know what works.

 

UPDATED:

 

As other users implement PMD, I will report back here on their findings.

 

1: 18mm High Density MDF - Could be better. Too dense for really good vibe transmission. Exciter placement is critical. (Reported by @RustyCardores)

2: 16 or 18mm Pine (custom lockdown bar) - Brilliant! Transmits every vibe from the smallest ball rolling to the loudest bumper. Hands on the actual vibe plate is extremely effective. (Reported by @RustyCardores)

3: Plywood (23 year old Judge Dredd) - Excellent! JayCar Amp and Exciters mounted on side under flipper buttons. (Reported by @Jed)

4: Plywood (original F-14 cab with Dayton Exciters) - WHAT AN EFFECT ! You can feel every bump, droptarget, kicker, and such, it's just great ! (Reported by @Nemo

 

*All future updates to the above list will be made on Page 1 of this thread.

Edited by RustyCardores
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 0

Sorry about the delay in replying, garden renovations this weekend, and I've been totally knackered...

 

@RustyCardores my Pincab is 23 years old, this Judge Dredd cabinet from 1993. After my first prototype vpin, I bought the JD to do my 2nd Pincab about 2.5 years ago from an Arcade warehouse/rental guy close to where I live, it had been stripped of all it's mechanicals and electronics and sold for parts, so I scooped up the complete cab (legs/glass/head/coin door/lockdown/rails etc etc) for my project. I love JD but especially the 2000 AD version of JD which this cab was based on, and the fact it's a widebody meant it was a perfect match for a vpin so I can use a large playfield TV. Bit hard to get pics as it's sandwiched between other pins

 

 

WP_20161119_22_20_41_Pro.thumb.jpg.5a1bb575b6abc65359e4c157bdc92859.jpg

 

I think the reason the exciters work so well in my cab mounted on the internal walls is real pinball cabs that I have seen of this era are made of ply/chipboard, heaps less dense than MDF - and mine being 23 years old, the resonance factor of the material would be fairly high by now due to age. The feedback is seriously mad from the 2x exciters, on some tables just really over the top (like the AMH pulse/heartbeat at the start - more on that later) so I'm glad I have the external volume control for the exciters via the amp.

 

@OzStick I bought this amp off the shelf from Jaycar, it's their cheapest amp ($39) but it is super rock solid, has a lovely old analogue look and feel about it, had a greater power output capability than the Exciters.

 

WP_20161118_23_30_55_Pro(1).thumb.jpg.691719668fcb4a12e50f575779bf854f.jpg

 

 

So for the amp and 2x Exciters I walked out of Jaycar about $80 lighter in the pocket but had a PMD setup ready to go. And it is crazy good. reckon it would be very hard to go back to playing without the feedback now.

 

and just getting back to the AMH question I had Rusty - if you've played this table since installing your PMD? This table being a custom build table/Ultradmd seems to treat sound differently than normal VP tables. It basically reverses the sound channels so the mechanicals are coming out of my regular subwoofer/sattelites and the music and 'rom' sounds coming out of the exciters. 2015 KISS is also an UltraDMD table, i haven't tried it yet though to see if it suffers the same problem.

 

Cheers,

Jed

Edited by Jed
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...